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Fogmeister
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:35 pm Posts: 6580 Location: Getting there
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In fact you don't need to have a computer of any sort in order to own an iPad. You can import photos using an SD card (with the additional SD card reader) or using your camera's USB cable (using the additional USB adapter). You can set up an account on the iTunes store and buy music from it using the iPad. Similarly for the iBooks store and the App Store. With the introduction of the iPad H264 compatible browsers will be more widely used across all hardware than Flash compatible browsers. (or something like that). Either way H264 is becoming more common to use in place of Flash and is less resource intensive. You don't even have to buy the music as the Spotify app for iPhone will work on the iPad out of the box. And what if the thing you want "in the first place" is something easy to use and light weight, something you can pick up to browse the web/read the paper/etc... in the morning whilst sat on the Sofa in front of the TV? I think that's exactly what it's intended to be. Someone further up the thread said it's an "iPod touch for grown ups" again, spot on. I've noticed now that it's on the UK Apple site but still quoting the price in US$. I wonder if that's because they haven't come up with a GBP price yet or if they don't want to announce it yet as it's a rip off exchange rate conversion?
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:46 pm |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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YouTube works without Flash, Chrome has an Addon to play all the videos with HTML5 instead of Flash, which should mean that it would also work with Safari and Firefox. To be honest, I also surf with Flash switched off on my desktop PC / Mac anyway. I only switch it on if I absolutely need it (which is generally Kongregate.com and that's it). Over iTunes, the same as the iPhone. Then there is the iDisk app and various other cloud apps. But having "files" isn't really the point of such a device. Having email, contacts, music, video, ebooks, photos etc. is what you have and you have those apps there and they sync with your desktop, or over the cloud with Me.com, Google, Exchange etc. This is a similar sort of abstraction that Microsoft have been working towards since 2002 with WinFS... Pretty much, although there is more to it than that. It isn't a laptop and shouldn't be thought of one. Yep, the app store acceptance process is a mess, currently. It is the only "bad" thing about the iPhone / iPod Touch. That said probably 90% of users would give you a blank stare if you try and tell them about it. Edit: I see Jon has already addressed the Flash point. The iPad does have a USB "port", well, it is an Apple Dock port, which does more, but is generally used to connect to a PC / Mac and sync data, whilst recharging.
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:50 pm |
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Assassin8or
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 134
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I was just pointing out, to the other people that had previously contributed to the thread, that there was likely going to be, in the coming months, alternative options that would likely be coming out which would not have most of the functionality foibles. I bet quite a few people on the forums won't be aware that these devices are coming. Apple do make nice looking pieces of equipment, don't get me wrong, but people will put up with truly awful treatment by Apple for good looking equipment. It makes me sad 
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:35 pm |
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Assassin8or
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 134
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I just hope that you don't have to buy the dock just to do that one thing. I think the provision of a cable to connect to a computer via USB is not too much to ask. I don't see anything to suggest that you'll get one though.
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:39 pm |
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Fogmeister
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:35 pm Posts: 6580 Location: Getting there
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That is something at least that they didn't disappoint on...
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:53 pm |
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Assassin8or
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 134
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 |  |  |  | Fogmeister wrote: In fact you don't need to have a computer of any sort in order to own an iPad. You can import photos using an SD card (with the additional SD card reader) or using your camera's USB cable (using the additional USB adapter). You can set up an account on the iTunes store and buy music from it using the iPad. Similarly for the iBooks store and the App Store. With the introduction of the iPad H264 compatible browsers will be more widely used across all hardware than Flash compatible browsers. (or something like that). Either way H264 is becoming more common to use in place of Flash and is less resource intensive. You don't even have to buy the music as the Spotify app for iPhone will work on the iPad out of the box. And what if the thing you want "in the first place" is something easy to use and light weight, something you can pick up to browse the web/read the paper/etc... in the morning whilst sat on the Sofa in front of the TV? I think that's exactly what it's intended to be. Someone further up the thread said it's an "iPod touch for grown ups" again, spot on. I've noticed now that it's on the UK Apple site but still quoting the price in US$. I wonder if that's because they haven't come up with a GBP price yet or if they don't want to announce it yet as it's a rip off exchange rate conversion? |  |  |  |  |
I'll just try to be quick answering your points. Not everyone wants to buy their music in a digital format with DRM infesting it. With limited options to move away to other platforms. Considering you'll find it hard to buy a laptop these days without some form of card reader slots, it's pretty stingy of them to leave it out. In the mean time you will have to do without flash, and any functionality it provides, like uploading facilities etc. You have to buy the additional functionality it seems. Why not put it the box, for free? It's not like you're not paying a premium already for the device. I did mention the spotify app. earlier. I'm saying that the new devices that should be coming this year will do everything and more than an iPad, and maybe even cost less.  |  |  |  | big_D wrote: YouTube works without Flash, Chrome has an Addon to play all the videos with HTML5 instead of Flash, which should mean that it would also work with Safari and Firefox. To be honest, I also surf with Flash switched off on my desktop PC / Mac anyway. I only switch it on if I absolutely need it (which is generally Kongregate.com and that's it). Over iTunes, the same as the iPhone. Then there is the iDisk app and various other cloud apps. But having "files" isn't really the point of such a device. Having email, contacts, music, video, ebooks, photos etc. is what you have and you have those apps there and they sync with your desktop, or over the cloud with Me.com, Google, Exchange etc. This is a similar sort of abstraction that Microsoft have been working towards since 2002 with WinFS... Pretty much, although there is more to it than that. It isn't a laptop and shouldn't be thought of one. Yep, the app store acceptance process is a mess, currently. It is the only "bad" thing about the iPhone / iPod Touch. That said probably 90% of users would give you a blank stare if you try and tell them about it. Edit: I see Jon has already addressed the Flash point. The iPad does have a USB "port", well, it is an Apple Dock port, which does more, but is generally used to connect to a PC / Mac and sync data, whilst recharging. |  |  |  |  |
I've looked at the source and right clicked the videos in Youtube and I see HTML 4.01 and Flash, this is in Firefox, so it must browser detect, but even FF3.6 has HTML 5 support so I don't see why it's not showing for me. I have Adblock Plus blocking adverts for me. I prefer not to see the blank boxes which is where the flash elements should be. Also, some sites absolutely require flash for certain key functionality. Essentially any site that uses flash applications. If you like to keep control of your information then files are pretty essential. I see that the online revolution means that you don't have to back up your data any more, but eventually it'll be used as a way to tie you into competing company's products. Also, there have been high profile occasions where webmail services have lost people's emails, what is there to stop your documents from disappearing. It's because I can't get Opera Mobile on the apple mobile platform that I will not consider it. And this is because Opera won't bother due to it being a competing product to the Safari browser, and it would 'Duplicate existing functionality'
Last edited by Assassin8or on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:54 pm |
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Assassin8or
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 134
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Redundant posting
Last edited by Assassin8or on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:08 pm |
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Assassin8or
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 134
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Well, a provided USB cable is good, it's going to be quite a thick cable to take 10W from the wall.
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:11 pm |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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Apple dropped DRM a couple of years ago, on music. You can buy low-quality DRMed or high quality DRM free... To be honest, I have never bought a single track, I just copied my existing music collection over to my iPhone. I applaud them, my last 2 laptops came with them, and my desktop. I don't want them! And I object to paying for things I don't need - which is why I probably won't be buying an iPad any time soon. I think it defaults to Flash and you can chose HTML 5 as an option (or it will autodetect no Flash installed and use HTML5? Which are sites I tend to avoid anyway, unless I absolutely have to... Files just confuse most people. If they just have a list of songs in a music app and sync those songs to their mobile device. I have to cope with users who don't understand files and directories every day. They can just about cope with an application which stores their data automatically in the background (manufacturing system), but start talking about files, shares and copying them and you just get a blank stare. This isn't a device for the hacker or user who stores his music in hierarchical directories, it is a device for users who want a simple, convenient device.
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:07 pm |
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Fogmeister
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:35 pm Posts: 6580 Location: Getting there
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Indeed. Like I said in another thread. It's a computer for people who don't want the hassle of owning a computer.
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:15 pm |
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gavomatic57
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:30 pm Posts: 1757 Location: Cardiff, Wales
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Currently Firefox isn't included in the html5 youtube "beta" - you need to use Chrome or Safari 4 http://www.youtube.com/html5As big_D says, itunes has been DRM free for a while - all tracks that you download come in an unrestricted m4a file at 256kb, but if you right click on the file you'll find an option to create an additional mp3 version at 192kb/s The more I look at the ipad, the more I want one. I can see this is going to be an expensive year!
_________________ G.
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:18 pm |
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Fogmeister
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:35 pm Posts: 6580 Location: Getting there
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I completely agree. My next tech purchase this year will be one of four different things... The iPad The next iPhone The Sony Ericsson X10 The Google Nexus One At the moment that gives me until June/July to decide which is perfect as that's when my current phone contract runs out. 
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:23 pm |
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ChurchCat
Doesn't have much of a life
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:57 am Posts: 1652
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Who knows how well it will sell? It will pretty much depend on what happens when you pick one up.
If most say "I don't get it" then it will flop.
If most say "Ooh I like that" then it will sell.
Geeks will always prefer a small laptop/netbook, but Joe public may just prefer a simpler device that is a joy to use. BTW that Nokia netbook looks pretty nice. I wonder how well it works in comparison?
_________________A Mac user 
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Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:42 pm |
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Assassin8or
Occasionally has a life
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:11 pm Posts: 134
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Actually, I don't seem to be able to check the pricing on the various options for iTunes without downloading the app. Is the 59p / 79p / 99p pricing without the DRM and what are the prices like with DRM? I must admit to being quite out of date when it comes to the movings of iTunes because I'm not much of a music fan. I tend to listen to music in the car on long journeys through a cheap 4GB Creative Xen media player. I find it a pain, as my camera is SD based and my phone has a microSD card in it. My laptop is nearly two years old, and I went for a 17" screen model, but that meant putting up with no media card reader, and not having it has proven a pain with having to carry around a USB reader and cable. Actually, if you turn off flash it says that you either don't have flash installed or an old version. You need a plugin for Chrome to work with HTML 5 too. Not everyone can avoid such sites though. Take teachers, parents and school children who have school websites that use flash. They have no choice. This is the area that I know about with being a technician (small firm means that I do a lot of different things in the company) for a school web design firm. Now, if any of those examples of users buy one of these iPads expecting to be able to use their school websites, they will not be able to use certain functionality because of this device's lack of support for flash based technology. Most people know about files, if they use any kind of office application. But they are used to transferring that onto some kind of removable media and then copying it off. I'm talking about a broad range of people here, from >70 year olds to <20 year olds. Not many people come across network shares in the home environment, except with the media extender concept with the xbox and a vista + PC I'd say it's not really a device that fulfils an role other than that of a glorified photo frame(portable portfolio) very well. In fact, when the HD tablets start coming out they will likely do that much better too. You might say that with Safari it's very forward looking browser, but how long is it going to have to wait for the majority of websites to move to HTML 5 and move away from Flash? Flash will still likely be around for a long time to come. If you look at IE6/7/8's share of the market, the web developers don't really have much choice but to use Flash in certain places for certain functionality, and most companies don't have the budgets to build, and maintain, two separate, but identical, websites. As I said regarding HTML 5 and you tube above to Big_D, Chrome 4 doesn't support HTML 5 unless you have the plug in as far as I can tell, even with clicking the link to say that you want to be part of the HTML 5 beta! I'm guessing that it's not so simple as just going to Youtube and watching videos on the iPad either after all. Anyway, it's pretty obvious the device is not for me, but that doesn't mean that the form factor is wrong for me, just the iPad. I'm not sure that that's true regarding 'geeks' as I like the form factor just not the iPad device, I like the look of the devices coming from MSI and Acer later this year. We should see more of those in March, at Cebit.
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Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:00 am |
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forquare1
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:36 pm Posts: 5161 Location: /dev/tty0
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If your company website is completely Flash based, you're an idiot IMO. Plenty of people will come across it and leave not being bothered. And plenty of people just won't come across it as all that cool content you have is unreadable to search engines. Blind people can't use the Flash content either IIRC. School definitely shouldn't be using Flash. If they get a blind pupil (there was one in my school so it's not unheard of) then they cannot use the resources. For a school to use such software that is not compatible with really old or really new machines is foolish. The more I look at the iPad, the more I see such a cool device. Netbooks are appealing, except for the cramped keyboard and screen. The iPad brings a decent interface to a similar sized device, I'm still not 100% on the App Store, but it's been good for me so far. As to the whole files thing, what Apple have done is very "ubiquitous". People don't understand files, not properly. The analogy is all wrong: your documents are files, your music is in files, your applications are files...Errr, since when was a paper file an application? People in the real world deal with documents, photos, DVDs. It's only in the computing world that all of these things are the same thing and don't really mimic their real life counter parts, do you have any idea how difficult this is for some people to get their heads around? Apple seem to be copying Xerox at the moment. The iPhone/'Touch is like Mark Weiser's Tab device while the iPad is similar to his idea of the Xerox Pad, perhaps Apple will come out with the iBoard in the next few years? 
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Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:12 pm |
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