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Apple: Windows 7 will help us sell more Macs 
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JJW009 wrote:

Windows 7 isn't an OS. It's a bloody "productivity suite" :evil:


Vista maybe, but W7 doesn't actually come with anything, apart from wordpad & media player! Everything else has to be downloaded separately.

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:16 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
Am I the only person who sees Windows 7 as Vista with new clothing?

It's not any more stable than Vista and I have yet to see any reason why it's more secure. Sure, UAC on Vista was a pain but after I got my machine up and running I was (un)lucky if I saw it once a month...

I installed Little Snitch on my mac and for the first few weeks after going through all the sites that I normally visit I would get the annoying pop ups but that is probably the same for Windows 7 users setting the security for their system.

Even if Windows 7 is just another version of Vista as long as it improves the lot for Windows user is that such a problem?

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:27 pm
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gavomatic57 wrote:
Vista maybe, but W7 doesn't actually come with anything, apart from wordpad & media player! Everything else has to be downloaded separately.
Good. Helps keep the installation nice and light.

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:57 pm
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It's still 16GB, mind you. Smaller than Vista still.

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:01 pm
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l3v1ck wrote:
gavomatic57 wrote:
Vista maybe, but W7 doesn't actually come with anything, apart from wordpad & media player! Everything else has to be downloaded separately.
Good. Helps keep the installation nice and light.

You cannot argue with that. Having a tight secure OS is best of all and with complete control of what you install is good for those who know what they are doing.

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Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:11 pm
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l3v1ck wrote:
gavomatic57 wrote:
Vista maybe, but W7 doesn't actually come with anything, apart from wordpad & media player! Everything else has to be downloaded separately.
Good. Helps keep the installation nice and light.


'Light'? :shock:

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:03 am
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gavomatic57 wrote:
JJW009 wrote:

Windows 7 isn't an OS. It's a bloody "productivity suite" :evil:


Vista maybe, but W7 doesn't actually come with anything, apart from wordpad & media player! Everything else has to be downloaded separately.

It comes with Internet Explorer 8 and it didn't have a browser voting screen! :D

Installed Firefox as my first download though! :)

And yes, Vista was praised to the heavens, like XP was, before launch, then like XP, after launch it was panned for lack of driver support and app compatibility, until the first service pack came out. By then, the damage had been done. I think if they had released Vista on time, XP would have vanished without a trace, but a whole generation had grown up without ever upgrading Windows by the time Vista turned up.

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:58 am
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Personally I don't care. Win7 isn't Mac OS X. I'll be sticking with Apple branded hardware, thankyouverymuch.

Mark

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:06 am
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Has anybody got experience of trying to help someone learn to use computers? I have and it's only when you see a brand new user struggle with an interface that you realise just how back-assward it really is.

My trouble is that I can kind of understand why they're all crap but I don't know enough about HCI to work out how they could be improved.

Hmm.... :thinks of new hobby:

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:49 am
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rustybucket wrote:
Has anybody got experience of trying to help someone learn to use computers? I have and it's only when you see a brand new user struggle with an interface that you realise just how back-assward it really is.
+1
I'd love to be able to program for Apple's HIG.

Mark

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okenobi wrote:
All I know so far is that Mark, Jimmy Olsen and Peter Parker use Nikon and everybody else seems to use Canon.
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Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:54 am
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timark_uk wrote:
rustybucket wrote:
Has anybody got experience of trying to help someone learn to use computers? I have and it's only when you see a brand new user struggle with an interface that you realise just how back-assward it really is.
+1
I'd love to be able to program for Apple's HIG.

Mark

Same here.

Truthfully though I wish I knew what I was talking about so I could help improve all the OSs.

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rustybucket wrote:
Has anybody got experience of trying to help someone learn to use computers? I have and it's only when you see a brand new user struggle with an interface that you realise just how back-assward it really is.

My trouble is that I can kind of understand why they're all crap but I don't know enough about HCI to work out how they could be improved.

Hmm.... :thinks of new hobby:



Do it. I've just got a new phone, a Samsung S5600. And it's all touch screeny and everything.
And it's one of the worst interfaces I've ever used.
Thinking back to the first time I held an iPhone, that was a complete piece of duff to get on with. Things worked as I expected them too. On the new phone, if I want a calculator I don't look under Applications. No, I have to look under Organiser. :roll:
Then there's the whole sidebar widget thing. They've just hidden the most common apps as 'widgets' that you have to drag off the bar, then click to open. It's fiddly and time consuming.
One of the things Apple do really well is take something that's quite complex and make it appear terribly simple, and they spend a long time on making it look like that.

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:26 am
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rustybucket wrote:
Has anybody got experience of trying to help someone learn to use computers? I have and it's only when you see a brand new user struggle with an interface that you realise just how back-assward it really is.

That is why I got my mum on to a mac, much easier to provide support for. :shock:

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:28 pm
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My understanding was the Win 7 is basically Vista SP3 with some improvements to the interface so it shouldn't have anywhere near the same level of driver issues as Vista did at launch.

Despite being a Mac user I somehow doubt that the majority of people faced with having to do a clean install over XP will decide to say sod it and go and get a Mac. They might get a new computer (which might be a mac but will probably still be a windows PC). In either case they would have to back up their stuff to transfer over anyway.

Goodness knows how long it will be before we get Windows 7 at work though. I only got upgraded to XP (from 2000 and in some cases 95) this year.
Aren't tightly regulated environments wonderful. Bleedin' software validation.

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Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:23 pm
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See my Windows 7 first looks thread in the Meeting Place.

I did a clean install (reformat drive and install) and it took between 20 and 25 minutes to do a complete install, including downloading all patches from Microsoft's Update service and updated drivers.

This is a HUGE plus for Windows users. With Windows XP, it refused to believe my last couple of machines even had hard drives installed (SATA drives and standard XP don't mix, you need a floppy disk - the last two machines didn't have floppy drives, so I had to borrow them from the shop where I purchased the parts, just to get Windows to install). On top of that, XP refused to believe there was a video card, sound card (there were 2), ethernet or wireless were installed on the machine.

Same with Vista, it recognised the hard drives, but on my Toshiba laptop, it couldn't find ethernet or wi-fi! As it couldn't tell me which drivers were missing, or the name of the devices, and Toshiba's website just says "802.11a/b/g/n" for the network card under detailed specifications, it took a lot of too-ing and fro-ing to find the correct wireless and wired drivers!

On my Scaleo P, the only device which wasn't automatically installed was the DVB-T USB stick (a Pinnacle Diversity). I downloaded the Vista 64-bit drivers and Windows Media Center picked it up and automatically tuned in all the channels.

That said, Rusty has a point. I have an office full of UNIX users, which have been using 80x25 Wyse terminals for the last 20 years! They are struggling to cope with the ease-of-use of Windows XP - and they've had that for the last 5 years or so! Throw in the complexities of something like Microsoft Dynamics Navision and it is a complete nightmare.

Most still close Outlook, before they open Excel or Navision! And most of them don't even know what a web browser is, let alone why they would want to use one. Heck I've even had one user typing a column of numbers into Excel, then using a desktop calculator to calculate to sum and then typing that in at the bottom of the list!

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Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:11 am
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