Well, the new draft National Curriculum is out, and it's causing some consternation. One of the things that seems problematic is the need for teachers to teach algorithms in primary schools.

Having had a conversation here, and knowing what I know about primary school teachers, it's a bit of a concern that they are being expected to teach something that is beyond their knowledge.

I expect there will be support materials, but money in education is very tight and I expect what there will be given will be minimal.

Anyway, I'm being signed up for Code Club. I suspect that this will be a help to the school.

Given the number of primary teachers that cannot cope with even mental arithmetic, my first thought was one of concern.

However, an algorithm is really just a series of steps, and so at a primary school level does not even really require much use of numbers / algebra.

It's a funny coincidence for me because I was on the Wiki page for "algorithm" just yesterday. I ended up there after looking at a list of unsolved problems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_un ... er_science - trying to follow it on the mobile version of the website is a bit of a nightmare!

As Jon says, at primary school level it really could be very simple. They're not going to be solving the great mysteries of our age.

Here's an algorithm to answer the serious question, can I eat some cake now?

Is there any cake?
yes->
Is it nearly tea time?
no->
Eat cake.

Or the even simpler, stricter diet version:

No.

Algorithm to make tea...

Pour water into kettle.

Is it full? No - repeat, Yes - continue.

Turn kettle on.

Get mug.

Get tea bag.

Put tea bag in mug.

Wait.

Is kettle boiled? No - repeat, Yes - continue.

And so on...

Still very simple and this would introduce loops and conditions etc...

When talking about what thy should be paid, teachers like to compare themselves to solicitors. Now they are talking about what they should be able to comprehend, it turns out they aren't confident of being above the level of quite a bright 9 year old?

Agreed and you really need to understand algorithms, structural thinking and logic, before you can really code anything more than

10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD ";
20 GOTO 10

Have you taught a bright 9 year old in every subject in the national curriculum?

Have you tried teaching a bright 9 year old in every subject in the national curriculum when the autistic child kicks off? This happens - classes are mixed ability and will, have children with special educational needs as well. Some of these can be quite disruptive, and can bring a lesson to a full halt while the child is calmed down or removed. Some children with problems will have helpers, but that depends on funding.

In primary education, a teacher is expected to be an expert in all of these fields:
Maths
English
Chemistry
Biology
Physics
History
Art
P.E.
IT
Modern Languages (apparently, according to the new Curriculum, this includes Mandarin, Latin and Ancient Greek)

as well as knowing how to deal with children who:
have dyslexia
have dyspraxia
have dyscalculia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia)
have Downs Syndrome
have Asperger's Syndrome
are severely autistic
have other developmental and learning problems.

So, a primary school teacher has a lot that they have to be able to comprehend and teach. What I am saying is that my observations tell me that like most of the population, the use and experience of computers does not go much far beyond using software to do things: write documents in Word, maybe editing photos, movies. The kind of things that people here do with computers are more advanced, and it's disingenuous to assume that because others don't have that level of understanding that somehow there is something wrong.

In secondary education, a teacher is expected to be an expert in one subject area; if you are a biologist, you'll be teaching biology. I would expect a maths teacher to be able to grasp the notion of an algorithm fairly easily.

I do not expect a primary school teacher to be able to. Their job is to provide a foundation for secondary schools to build on. That means a more general form of education, and a great deal of social grounding work. I don't think a primary school would be churning out software engineers, but I would expect them to provide a grounding that will enable a secondary school to do so.

Right now, the edicts are out, and with no supporting material or guidance, I think that teachers are right to be concerned about teaching a subject which they have not had any exposure to before.

I'm sorry but you are exaggerating wildly. You don't have to be an expert to teach key stage 2 in any field, you just have to be more of an expert than the child is. If you had to be an actual expert, you would need 7 bachelors degrees to teach infants.

Everything else you mentioned is just the background noise of teaching and applies just as much to home economics classes as it does to ICT.

I can understand teachers being afraid that their charges won't comprehend the material, but I am not impressed if they are worried that they too will fail.

Then you clearly know nothing on the subject of teaching children. I suggest you gain some experience of the subject before sticking an ill-informed opinion in again.

*sits down with a tub of popcorn*

im agreeing with mr Lumb (the decrepid old version ) and it only get worse when the little darlings enter secondary school.

Are learning algorithms at a very young age beneficial anyway? Couldn't such education be left until secondary school where they might be better funded? Though principles could be taught earlier.


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Broadly, I think it's a good thing. However, I'm not so sure about IT being taught as a separate subject. I think computers (please let's get away from 'IT', it's a horrid phrase)should be taught to compliment other subjects. English should be broadened to include writing letters in a word processor and the like, Maths would include spreadsheets. Algorithms could be included in many subjects, as the examples above show, cooking would be one use of an algorithm. Later it might be appropriate for Maths to include them to help explain basic principles.

When I was at primary school I had no idea what geography was, and was very excited to find out what this new, wondrous subject was when I went up to secondary school. I was disappointed. Turns out I had been doing geography in primary school, it had just never been pointed out. Instead we did projects like 'France'. In the very first years of primary school I never studied biology, once again there were projects like 'mini-beasts' that included ready the very hungry caterpillar and going to have a look at the schools pond.
I feel that computers should be taught like this.

That sounds like a very natural way to introduce computers as a normal part of life, which they are now. In fact, it's almost weird to think of most subjects not involving a computer these days. It's much like not using pen and paper, and keeping "writing" as a totally separate subject.

Maybe they do that already? I wouldn't know. The only teacher friend I see regularly has been retired a few years, but she did say they used computers for "everything" now.

I did primary school projects on Wales and newts, which involved going to Wales and keeping newts. I think that's illegal now.