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Freezing doctors' pay... 
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...boils my pi$$!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19845909
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Doctors' pay should be frozen again, employers say

Doctors' pay should be frozen for the third year in a row, the body NHS Employers says.

NHS Employers said extending the freeze would free up money to maintain patient care and minimise job losses.

Its submission to the Doctors and Dentists Review Body (DDRB) added that an increase in pay next April was neither "necessary or affordable".

But doctors' leaders said morale was low - and medics across the board had seen their earnings cut.

A two-year public sector pay freeze comes to an end in April 2013.

The DDRB will make its recommendations to the governments of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland in February or March.

Last week, the King's Fund think-tank said an average staff pay increase of 1% would add £400m to £500m to NHS expenditure.

The health service has to make £20bn in efficiency savings by 2015,

NHS Employers says doctors' remuneration package remains "highly competitive", when pensions and other benefits are taken into account.

And it adds most doctors will see their earnings rise between 3-8% each year through incremental pay increases and progression through training.
'Financial challenge'

Dean Royles, director of NHS Employers, said: "The simple truth is that NHS organisations cannot afford an unnecessary increase in doctors' pay rates over the next year without it impacting on patient care.

"Most doctors in the NHS already benefit from annual incremental pay increases and pay progression through training.

"Any additional increase is unaffordable for the NHS."

But Dr Mark Porter, chair of the British Medical Association's council, said: "The argument that continuing the freeze on doctors' pay will help NHS employers maintain quality of care simply does not stand up to scrutiny.

"There is already a major problem with morale, with doctors at the front line dealing with huge efficiency savings and wholesale NHS reorganisation.

"Maintaining and improving care in the face of probably the biggest ever financial challenge for the NHS requires a more strategic response than just continuing to cut the terms and conditions of its staff."

He added: "Junior doctors' take-home pay is dropping, consultants' pay has been frozen since 2009, and the latest earnings figures for GPs show that their net income continues to fall.

"On top of this, all doctors have just seen more taken out of their pay to fund higher pension contributions - while the value of their pension benefits is being cut - with further contribution increases due to follow.

The BMA is to publish its evidence to the review body next week.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:53 pm
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Oh FFS. This is why doctors close to retirement are just retiring. It works out better for them financially. Others are just leaving the NHS altogether and either working entirely privately, or moving abroad. It means fewer NHS doctors which means you'll have rising waiting times, less experienced doctors working etc.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:57 pm
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
Oh FFS. This is why doctors close to retirement are just retiring. It works out better for them financially. Others are just leaving the NHS altogether and either working entirely privately, or moving abroad. It means fewer NHS doctors which means you'll have rising waiting times, less experienced doctors working etc.

Welcome to modern Britain. I've had a pay freeze for I think 4 or 5 years...


Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:02 pm
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It's over 5 years since I had a pay rise too. :cry:

The stark reality is this country's broke. I think doctors and nurses earn every penny they get, and more, but the money's just not there at the moment.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:10 pm
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This year my pay was dropped by around £200 a month, sneakily done by rejigging who I'm contracted through.

We're all having to tighten our belts...


Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:12 pm
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Doctors are amply remunerated for their great work, IMHO.
I'm not sure what you'd all be doing with a pay increase.
I think the problem is (and this is applicable to all forms of employment) when your peers are all earning similar amounts you kind of lose touch with what's 'normal'.
A friend was recently bemoaning the fact she's been offered a job in London, based in Chelsea. The wage? About £60k. She's 10 years younger than me, with a degree no better than mine, and she'd be operating as a glorified travel logistics coordinator.
Now, this is a private firm not a nationally funded scheme I should point out.
To my mind, I'd say 'Thank you very much, I'll see you on Monday' but the thing is it's not a significantly large enough increase to make the decision that simple.
Someone else I know hasn't had a rise in over 5 years, but when he did his rise was roughly equal to my annual income.
Lots of people haven't had a pay rise in years. Being with the college for about a year now simply means my contract has matured and I'm more or less making as much as I'm going to in my role.

Again, doctors are amply remunerated, IMHO.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:17 pm
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The issue is that it's not even gone up with inflation. Hence it's actually a pay cut - for the last three years.

Keeping up with inflation is a tiny amount but not doing so just demeans and demoralises us. My point is that in the long run, it will cause more problems for the NHS. It's not going to help the efficiency savings and it's not going to help save the NHS either.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:32 pm
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Well, like I mentioned, you're in the same boat as most of us.
Call it a readjustment - it sucks, yes, but there we are. It's happening.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:35 pm
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Doctors are very well paid. Probably overpaid by any long term measure. Though with the rising cost of training the government should offset this even if they freeze pay.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:45 pm
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I have no idea what doctors earn in the NHS. Is it as much as bankers and politicians?

What I do know is that I'm very glad indeed I have ready access to such skilled professionals. I do wish the NHS would work faster sometimes, and the last thing I want is anything that adds to the number of people suffering on waiting lists.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:09 pm
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Depends what they do. GPs are on about 120k iirc. Decent, but not outrageous.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:25 pm
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tombolt wrote:
Depends what they do. GPs are on about 120k iirc. Decent, but not outrageous.

Roughly equivalent to a Cabinet MInister I think.
CW has a legitimate complaint insofar as without a cost of living increase, his pay has effectively been reduced. That's something every one has a right to bitch about. However it does remain true that the majority of the population are in the same boat.
The only pay sector that's been rising at anything above inflation recently is executive pay....

Jon


Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:51 pm
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tombolt wrote:
Depends what they do. GPs are on about 120k iirc. Decent, but not outrageous.

When you consider that you only need £58,917 to be in the top 5% of all earners it starts to look outrageous. Though in terms of top bankers it is a pittance though many doctors can get many times that in private practice especially if they are surgeons.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:54 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
tombolt wrote:
Depends what they do. GPs are on about 120k iirc. Decent, but not outrageous.

Roughly equivalent to a Cabinet MInister I think.
CW has a legitimate complaint insofar as without a cost of living increase, his pay has effectively been reduced. That's something every one has a right to bitch about. However it does remain true that the majority of the population are in the same boat.
The only pay sector that's been rising at anything above inflation recently is executive pay....

Jon


Quite. It's a legitimate complaint, but join the queue. And the back of it at that.

To be fairer, towards the back!

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:30 pm
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The civil service is still experiencing a pay freeze, why shouldn't the NHS?

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:11 pm
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