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National curriculum to make languages compulsory from seven 
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There are no drawbacks to using Google Translate, it is perfect and will never lead to confusion or embarrassment.

A few languages later....

Loss of use of Google Translate is not, can become full, causing confusion, and there is no mystery.


Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:42 pm
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JJW009 wrote:
I don't really know, but I have heard that American Spanish and European Spanish are different enough that it really does matter which you learned. There are certainly different courses for each.

I did some work in Spain a couple of months ago with a Cuban. She reckoned that the main differences are little things like the Spanish don't say 'okay' whereas Cubans do. Perhaps it's different in Mexico or somewhere.

I have already forgotten the Spanish for OK.


Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:00 pm
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leeds_manc wrote:
There are no drawbacks to using Google Translate, it is perfect and will never lead to confusion or embarrassment.

A few languages later....

Loss of use of Google Translate is not, can become full, causing confusion, and there is no mystery.

TBH I'm not sure that's radically different from using the wrong words/context when speaking a foreign language - and the same goes for foreigners speaking English. Sometimes you can pick up the gist of what they're trying to say and go from there. It's amazing how far you can get just by pointing.

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:06 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
It's amazing how far you can get just by pointing.


Imagine if you could speak the lingo!

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:08 pm
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ProfessorF wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
It's amazing how far you can get just by pointing.


Imagine if you could speak the lingo!

Or in Spanish; "IMAGINE IF YOU COULD SPEEKO THE LINGO!"

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:10 pm
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ProfessorF wrote:
Linux_User wrote:
It's amazing how far you can get just by pointing.


Imagine if you could speak the lingo!

No doubt, but the issue at hand is whether it's actually worth learning the lingo at school.

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:32 pm
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To which the answer is 'yes'.

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:49 pm
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ProfessorF wrote:
To which the answer is 'yes'.

And I completely disagree. ;)

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:58 pm
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After five years of French, I can say (not write) "My name is Ben" and "You are a potato"...

The languages department was full of misbehaviour (much more so than 'dosser' subjects) and teachers who had just come off maternity and were about to go back on...


Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:04 pm
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ShockWaffle wrote:
JJW009 wrote:
I don't really know, but I have heard that American Spanish and European Spanish are different enough that it really does matter which you learned. There are certainly different courses for each.

I did some work in Spain a couple of months ago with a Cuban. She reckoned that the main differences are little things like the Spanish don't say 'okay' whereas Cubans do. Perhaps it's different in Mexico or somewhere.

I have already forgotten the Spanish for OK.

And the Spanish lisp their Cs, unless it's certain bits of the south. In SA - gracias in Spain - grathias (pronounced)

The noticeable difference to a non Spanish speaker is the accent - imagine the stereotypical Hollywood Mexican drug lord compared with the stereotypical waiter from Barcelona.


Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:08 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
ProfessorF wrote:
To which the answer is 'yes'.

And I completely disagree. ;)


But it's entirely beneficial in more areas than simply ordering a meal on holiday, and while in the world of business English might be popular, everyone at that meeting in France can speak at least two languages. Except you. Which puts you at a disadvantage and frankly makes you look arrogant at least.
Start them young. It's been shown to be beneficial abroad, so long as it's properly implemented.

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:33 pm
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Linux_User wrote:
True as that may be Big_D, all of that only helps you in the country you intend to work in/visit. Learning German only helps you in Germany and surrounding areas, learning French only helps you in Metropolitan France, learning Swedish will get you by in Sweden etc.

It also helps in business, if you need to do business with a foreign country, there is no guarantee that the people will speak English. My company is currently doing an English course for employees, as we have more and more international customers. Under 5% of employee can speak fluent English, about 75% don't know enough English to be able to listen in on a teleconference.

We do a lot of work with an American partner and I spend a lot of time translating between English and German in those conferences.

Linux_User wrote:
English is the closest thing the world has to an international language, with Spanish coming second. Nothing else even comes close.

Theoretically, maybe. But in practice, it isn't that easy. Also, as I said, speaking the local language will get you a lot further, especially in business, than expecting the locals to speak English. Even if you can't speak it fluently, if you make an effort, they will give you more breaks and be more willing to do business with you, than if you force them to speak English.

Linux_User wrote:
So if you want to teach school children Spanish then be my guest - it actually has a superior chance of being useful - but everything else should be ditched and you can learn it later, should you need to. The fact is the vast majority of British people will never have cause to speak a foreign language, and as such this nonsense is wasting valuable curriculum time which could be spent raising numeracy and literacy standards instead.

Chinese is probably more useful these days... ;)

leeds_manc wrote:
There are no drawbacks to using Google Translate, it is perfect and will never lead to confusion or embarrassment.

A few languages later....

Loss of use of Google Translate, is not, can become full, causing confusion, and there is no mystery.

The amount of Google Translateor, or Google Garble as I like to call it, and Babelfish English I receive is unbelievable. The translations generally have little or no relation to the original messages, even going through one translation into English!

I think Google can do a good enough job about 10% of the time, the rest of the time it is just hilarious and I'll write back and ask for it to be reworded.

ProfessorF wrote:
To which the answer is 'yes'.

I totally agree. Osnabruck is an old British Military town, there are a lot of ex-Army types here, who stayed once their time was up. After 20 years, they still only speak a couple of words of English. They rely on wifes and friends, if they need to buy anything that isn't off the shelf of the supermarket, for filling out forms etc. The Germans I meet are often astounded how good my German is (about that of a 10-12 year old German school kid), they are also very grateful that they can actually communicate with me.

My girlfriend can't speak any English and can only understand a little, which meant I spent most of the time translating, when we visited Blighty last year.

ProfessorF wrote:
But it's entirely beneficial in more areas than simply ordering a meal on holiday, and while in the world of business English might be popular, everyone at that meeting in France can speak at least two languages. Except you. Which puts you at a disadvantage and frankly makes you look arrogant at least.

Exactly. They can also totally cut you out of any conversation, if they want to.

ProfessorF wrote:
Start them young. It's been shown to be beneficial abroad, so long as it's properly implemented.

Agreed. As I said on the previous page, learning a second or third language from a young age (pre-school, learning 2 or 3 parallel) is relatively easy for a small child, trying to do the same when they are adults take a lot longer and they will never be as good.

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Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:28 am
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You'd be surprised at the number of 16 to 19 year olds who cannot construct a sentence on paper... let's concentrate on teaching them English and worry about the other languages when they get the hang of their first language.

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Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:27 am
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JJW009 wrote:
leeds_manc wrote:
I think the point is it's much much easier for kids to learn a new language than it is for adults, adults who have learned a second language by the time their 10 can learn a third very quickly and naturally.

This. Don't most other countries teach foreign languages early on? Also private schools in England.

Learning French, German, Spanish or whatever is likely to be just as useful as socio-economic history from 1701-1800 or whatever it was that we did...

Also as others have said, learning any language increases your understanding of language in general. Hell, even if it's Latin or Greek. Actually it would be quite cool if everyone on the planet learned Latin at school.

I did. Did 7 years of latin and took it at A-levels.
Also studied English and Spanish.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:59 am
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Linux_User wrote:
True as that may be Big_D, all of that only helps you in the country you intend to work in/visit. Learning German only helps you in Germany and surrounding areas, learning French only helps you in Metropolitan France, learning Swedish will get you by in Sweden etc.

English is the closest thing the world has to an international language, with Spanish coming second. Nothing else even comes close. English is now even commonly spoken in the boardrooms of French companies (and even features in internal memos), by way of an example. Some French companies even require their candidates to speak English. EU institutions have moved away from French and German in favour of English.

So if you want to teach school children Spanish then be my guest - it actually has a superior chance of being useful - but everything else should be ditched and you can learn it later, should you need to. The fact is the vast majority of British people will never have cause to speak a foreign language, and as such this nonsense is wasting valuable curriculum time which could be spent raising numeracy and literacy standards instead.

Very few French people speak English well enough to get their ideas across. Especially in French companies. People come to me panicking whenever a French person is on the phone.


Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:01 am
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