We're one nation of 27. We have the (joint) 2nd most MEPs in the whole thing. We have equal representation on the Council of Ministers. You want to control the whole thing? That's not very democratic.

Nothing of the sort. I would havce thought that our party leaders would have asked our MEP's to vote against any increase. Even so the other countries MEPs would have been able to outvote us even if we had a united front on the matter.

Should we be able to out-vote 26 other nations?

Of course not.

The situation would be worse if UK pulled out of the EU. UK firms doing business with EU countries would still have to obey EU rules, but the UK would have absolutely no influence on how those rules are made.

We're one of 26 (IIRC) members of the EU. Exactly how much direct influence do you think we have anyway?

Jon

They would need to make sure that any goods sold met EU legislation - but that no difference making sure that any goods meet US standards.

A lot of standards are now reasonably harmonised between the main industrial nations

They would not need though to follow any employment etc laws so that might make us more competitive nor any new EU Taxes - the commission would love to have an EU wide VAT that would fund it and are pushing for it

A lot and certainly as much as any other member state. And much more than non-member states, such as Switzerland, that still have to abide by huge swathes of EU law because the EU is its major trading partner.

Which, therefore, amounts to slightly less than 4% of the vote. Good luck getting anything passed with that. what influence we have is essentially informal; it's what we can convince the other members to vote for as well. if you think about it, that doesn't necessarily require us to be a member of the EU.


1) You really think Switzerland has no influence at all? Really?
2) Iceland wasn't a member of the EU. Doesn't seem to have stopped it's economy falling over having a major influence on us. Just as much as Portugal or Greece. The EU provides little protection to the UK in a global economy.
3) Nobody is not going to trade with us because we're not a member of the EU. Every member of the EU trades with the US, China, India, Russia etc etc etc. if we make some thing they want or provide some service they need, they will trade with us. The EU in this respect is smokescreen.

The EU is a political project. That's why they changed the name from the 'EEC', because nobody actually believed it was about economics any more. It's the idea of European unification brought solid. Now that's fine and it may well be a good idea - frankly I'd rather we have the Germans in charge of our economy than George Osborne. But the idea that the EU is an essential body that we simply must be part of or fall into rack and ruin well - have you looked at the news recently? That's happening anyway, EU or not EU.

Jon

I think I've found why politics costs so much:

Czech President has a Bacup-look at a pen

I’m surprised he didn’t nick the box too.

So brazen about as well. Reminds me of our politicians.

Nah - ours try to hide it.

Well he did as well, but not that well. Even if caught ours will deny it right up to the point of the judge delivering the sentence.

Here's some more:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... n-aid.html