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Average speed cameras illegal (DE) 
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https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung ... 33809.html (German language)

I haven't found an English report so far.

The German courts have decided that the first average speed camera system that went online 2 months ago is actually illegal under data protection rules (GDPR).

The problem is, a normal speed camera takes a picture of somebody breaking the speed limit and this is allowed.

The average speed cameras photograph every car / its numberplate as it enters and leaves the section under observation. The problem is, it takes images of cars/drivers that have not committed a crime and stores said image. In order to do that, the camera operator has to get the assent of every driver not breaking the speed limit to be photographed, before the image is taken. It is also illegal to store the information once the driver has left the control area, unless they are guilty of excessive speed.

The police got their knuckles rapped last month for using the cameras to trace/catch criminals of other crimes who happened to pass in front of these cameras. Now the State of Lower Saxony has to immediately disable the camera system, while they wait for their appeal to be heard.

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Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:38 am
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If you find an English version of the story, let us know.

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Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:56 am
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https://newsbeezer.com/austriaeng/b6-st ... r-control/

It seems as though they took the German story and bunged it through Google Translate.

Edit: this ones seems a little better:
https://navva.org/netherlands/netherlan ... -pro-news/

It seems the story has slipped under the radar, so to speak, in the English speaking press.

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Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:23 am
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big_D wrote:
It seems the story has slipped under the radar, so to speak, in the English speaking press.


There’s been a lot going on here.

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Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:38 pm
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We've been more focused on this stupid idea to track cars and automatically limit their speeds.

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Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:09 am
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This sorta story is why I forsee problems with the EU's proposed vehicle black boxes/speed limiters. There's no way those won't breach GDPR one way or another.

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Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:17 pm
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I imagine when you buy a car, you'll have to sign something to state that you agree to your data being collected and monitored for safety purposes. If you refuse to sign, you won't be able to buy a car.

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Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:00 am
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
I imagine when you buy a car, you'll have to sign something to state that you agree to your data being collected and monitored for safety purposes. If you refuse to sign, you won't be able to buy a car.


The thing is though, they're talking about the data going to insurance companies, the police, doctors if need be. You'll need legislation around retention alone never mind what is/isn't legitimate collection and handling. The obvious scandal would be the inevitable, 'Our harvested data shows there's always accidents at place X, up go the residents' premiums!'.

The Met. will abuse the living crap out of it, and councils were even caught misusing data from 'smart bins' before IIRC. It'll be a legal minefield and just more than a little creepy IMO.

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Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:12 am
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Another electronic device in your car to go wrong and be costly to replace - because you know that it’ll be an MOT fail if it’s not working. Cars are becoming more and more reliant on sealed electronics - and those can often spell the end of a car which, in all other ways, is working perfectly because they are uneconomic to replace, or they are just no longer being produced because version 2 is out and guess what, version 2 won’t work in your car.

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Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:19 am
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paulzolo wrote:
Another electronic device in your car to go wrong and be costly to replace - because you know that it’ll be an MOT fail if it’s not working. Cars are becoming more and more reliant on sealed electronics - and those can often spell the end of a car which, in all other ways, is working perfectly because they are uneconomic to replace, or they are just no longer being produced because version 2 is out and guess what, version 2 won’t work in your car.


This. A friend works as an Audi mechanic. A lot of his work is resetting the hardware, essentially, because sensors go mental legitimately or otherwise. While it's easier than ever for him to know where to look first, it's often also helping to create the problem!

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Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:24 am
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cloaked_wolf wrote:
I imagine when you buy a car, you'll have to sign something to state that you agree to your data being collected and monitored for safety purposes. If you refuse to sign, you won't be able to buy a car.

Private imports?
Would that get round it?

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Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:30 am
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pcernie wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
Another electronic device in your car to go wrong and be costly to replace - because you know that it’ll be an MOT fail if it’s not working. Cars are becoming more and more reliant on sealed electronics - and those can often spell the end of a car which, in all other ways, is working perfectly because they are uneconomic to replace, or they are just no longer being produced because version 2 is out and guess what, version 2 won’t work in your car.


This. A friend works as an Audi mechanic. A lot of his work is resetting the hardware, essentially, because sensors go mental legitimately or otherwise. While it's easier than ever for him to know where to look first, it's often also helping to create the problem!


We have a motoring series over here, where 2 "auto doctors" look at problem cars. Often they have had 2 or 3 replacement injectors, new plugs, new leads etc. because that is what the computer told the mechanic was wrong and the car still doesn't run properly. They pull everything apart and there is a split in a diaphragm on the air inlet which was not looked at, because the computer said the problem was elsewhere. The garage couldn't fix the problem, because they didn't look, and the owner pays a fortune for replacement parts that were unnecessary. E.g. they paid 3K for repairs, whereas the real problem was a 5€ diaphragm, plus 2 hours labour...

@L3v1ck - I can see an upsurge in "classic" cars (i.e. anything before 2015).

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Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:20 am
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big_D wrote:
The garage couldn't fix the problem, because they didn't look, and the owner pays a fortune for replacement parts that were unnecessary.

Does the owner get the money back?

My car from 2007 has a diagnostic port and I recall taking it in to VW to get looked at. My clutch pedal stuck down on a few occasions (I think this was third year of ownership of a new car). The local VW couldn't find anything wrong and had run the diagnostics as well. I went to another VW garage by a different group and a passing master tech overheard the problem (slave cylinder leak). The car was in and fixed within 24 hours. You can put as many sensors as you want but sometimes you need someone who knows how the car works.

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Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:42 am
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I have no idea, whether they get their money back. That is outside what the programme shows, maybe the station's lawyers help, or the car owner is left to fight it out with the garage...

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Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:21 am
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