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saspro
Site Admin
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:53 pm Posts: 8603 Location: location, location
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Now correct me if I'm wrong (I may well be), but say we decide not to agree to the 2nd worst trade deal in history & go WTO (worst trade deal in history). Does that still not still leave us with the massive problems of actually getting goods we've traded in & out of the country? We may be able to trade (with heavy tarrifs) but we still won't be allowed to land planes, cross borders with trucks etc
How would thethe majority of Leave voters feel when they suddenly realise that a "no deal" Brexit means we can't get booze & fags in to the country any more?
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:15 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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The WTO works in an interesting way, and we’ve already fallen foul of it. We don’t just rock up and say “hey, we want to trade under WTO rules” and off we go. We actually have to say what we want to trade, what tariffs we’ll be applying, and so on. It‘s quite detailed. Then the other WTO countries have a think about it and come back with an acceptance or a rejection. The thing is, if we have a competing country that doesn’t like out tariffs on their products, then they can easily veto our proposal. In essence, one country can shut our trading plans down. Oh, hello, Russia. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... to-plan-ukThis is another major hurdle, and our relations with Russia aren’t that great at the moment, so they’ll be quite keen on throwing us under a bus. Also, Liam Fox is doing this, so, well, you know. Trading under WTO rules is not the easy option that people think it is.
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:19 am |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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So, the German B1 and the citizenship tests are both out of the way. I have to wait 6 weeks for the certificates, but I know that I have passed the B1 and I think I'm well over the required minimum in the citizenship test.
Of the 30 people taking the test today, about a third were British.
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:55 pm |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:50 am |
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l3v1ck
What's a life?
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:21 am Posts: 12700 Location: The Right Side of the Pennines (metaphorically & geographically)
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I think for Brexiteers and Remainers alike, the best sceanario now is: 1) Deal fails to get voted in by parliament 2) PM delcares the public will decide in a two questions referendum:
Question 1) Should we accept the deal that has been negotiated? Yes/No Question 2) If not, should we leave the EU without a deal or remain in the EU?
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Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:33 pm |
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Spreadie
I haven't seen my friends in so long
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:06 pm Posts: 6355 Location: IoW
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Should we accept the deal? The one that is actually worse than remaining in the EU? Really can't see that being a popular choice. Although I am reckoning without the sound and rational reasoning skills of the 17m [LIFTED] that voted for this mess in the first place.
_________________ Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:20 pm |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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17,410,742 free thinking individuals to be exact ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:57 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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http://jackofkent.com/2018/11/three-vis ... rexit-fog/Coming this week - the EU General Court hears the EU Citizen case. Can UK citizens still be EU citizens after Brexit? Coming soon - the “Meaningful Vote” which is parliament deciding on May’s deal. Nothing here that key allies, including the DUP, are likely to vote against it. Expect May & cabinet to ramp up selling this deal to everyone and anyone. Maybe more resignations, and possibly an uptick of pressure from the ERG in getting a no confidence vote in May. Also coming later - a private case against Boris Johnson for lying in office. (I don’t have much more on this, but let’s see where that one goes). Possible event - Corbyn & May debating all of this on TV. Another possible event - Tory leadership campaign / General Election as May realises she can’t push her deal through, or she loses the vote in the Commons. Coming soon - Christmas break. Two weeks when bugger all happens in politics. The next few weeks will be interesting.
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:35 am |
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big_D
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm Posts: 10691 Location: Bramsche
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I'm already assuming the worst on this and getting my German citizenship.
_________________ "Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari
Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:30 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:36 pm |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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i am posting an article from the Guardian. please have a read it hits a lot of nails on the head ... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -deal-risk
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:26 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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i am posting an article from the Guardian. please have a read it hits a lot of nails on the head ... | | | | Quote: But there begins my angst. For if – when – her deal goes down, we take a very large stride towards the abyss that is no deal. Of course, everyone says that there’s no Commons majority for no deal; there is a consensus that it would be a catastrophe. But a consensus is not enough. Thanks to laws already passed, Britain will leave without a deal on 29 March 2019 unless some other legal mechanism is put in place: no deal is the legal default. The fact that everyone agrees it would be awful is nice, but that consensus is useless unless MPs can also agree on an alternative. We’ve spent much of November marking the centenary of the first world war: we should know that great and powerful nations are capable of walking into disaster quite by accident.
Still, advocates of a people’s vote counsel that pro-remain MPs just need to hold their nerve, reject the May deal and then, in the ensuing chaos, make their push for a second referendum. But, as things stand, the numbers are not encouraging. Even if Labour came off the fence and backed a new referendum, the effort could still fall short: there are enough Labour leavers who would rebel to cancel out those Tories who currently back a people’s vote. | | | | |
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -deal-risk
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:27 am |
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MrStevenRogers
Spends far too much time on here
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm Posts: 4860
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anybody heard of the ' The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980' ... | | | | Quote: There is, indeed, an international treaty about international treaties. The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980 and no one has much heard of it. It did, though, attract the attention of a House of Lords select committee during the initial debates about triggering Article 50. The basic point about the Vienna Convention is that, yes, the UK could walk away from a treaty with the EU (eg the EU-UK withdrawal agreement or the forthcoming potential free trade agreement) if it wishes. Article 70 of the Vienna Convention, entitled “Consequences of the termination of a treaty”, provides: “1. Unless the treaty otherwise provides or the parties otherwise agree, the termination of a treaty under its provisions or in accordance with the present Convention:
a) releases the parties from any obligation further to perform the treaty;
b) does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.”
So, was Cox asked whether the UK could, in effect, just tear up its new EU treaties, and do so quite legally under this obscure international convention? If so, what did Cox advise? | | | | |
full article ... https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 67296.htmlinteresting to say the least ...
_________________ Hope this helps . . . Steve ...
Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ... HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...
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Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:47 pm |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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As you may have seen last night, the Government got a quadruple whammy of things that did not go their way yesterday: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-46428579This is currently an opinion, but it’s usual that such opinions become a fact. Out government spent a lot of money trying to block this ruling. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46446694All this before May had to open the 5 day debate about the draft agreement. As of yesterday, this seems to be an uphill struggle.
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Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:39 am |
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paulzolo
What's a life?
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm Posts: 12251
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| | | | MrStevenRogers wrote: anybody heard of the ' The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980' ... | | | | Quote: There is, indeed, an international treaty about international treaties. The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980 and no one has much heard of it. It did, though, attract the attention of a House of Lords select committee during the initial debates about triggering Article 50. The basic point about the Vienna Convention is that, yes, the UK could walk away from a treaty with the EU (eg the EU-UK withdrawal agreement or the forthcoming potential free trade agreement) if it wishes. Article 70 of the Vienna Convention, entitled “Consequences of the termination of a treaty”, provides: “1. Unless the treaty otherwise provides or the parties otherwise agree, the termination of a treaty under its provisions or in accordance with the present Convention:
a) releases the parties from any obligation further to perform the treaty;
b) does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.”
So, was Cox asked whether the UK could, in effect, just tear up its new EU treaties, and do so quite legally under this obscure international convention? If so, what did Cox advise? | | | | |
full article ... https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 67296.htmlinteresting to say the least ... | | | | |
I believe I have. I mentioned it earlier in this thread (or many another one). It also has provisions for dealing with elections and referendums which are deemed to be fraudulent. Given the current state of the 2016 referendum, it could well apply. However, as that referendum was non binding - there was no legal requirement in the Act for the government to do anything about it - it doesn’t apply here, though it is possible that other avenues of legislation could be explored to nullify the result and the consequential laws laid down following it. Interesting times, etc..
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Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:42 am |
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