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The Leaflets that MSR has been complaining about - they were sent our before the official campaign started, and therefore does not count.

Also, and this is important, the Venice Code, which covers how things like elections and referendums are handled (note, this is what can be used to annul results in certain circumstances), requires that the government sets out its position AND the pros and cons. That was the reason for the leaflet.

Quote:
When a text is put to the vote at the request of a section of the electorate or an authority other than Parliament, Parliament must be able to give a non-binding opinion on the text put to the vote. In the case of the popular initiatives, it may be entitled to put forward a counter-proposal to the proposed text, which will be put to the popular vote at the same time. A deadline must be set for Parliament to give its opinion: if this deadline is not met, the text will be put to the popular vote without Parliament’s opinion.

Page 16 - http://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/docu ... dl-ad(2007)008-e

There’s a lot more in that document, but there bits the cover referendums are interesting in the current context.

The campaign for the Brexit vote started OFFICIALLY on 15th April 2016. Unofficial campaigning started in February of that year.

The leaflet was delivered to households in England from 11 – 13 April. Two days before the official campaign date, and therefore does not fall within the election rules for spending.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... m-leaflet/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaigni ... ndum,_2016

So the argument about the Remain campaign overspending on the Government leaflet is bogus.

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Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:30 pm
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paulzolo wrote:
The Leaflets that MSR has been complaining about - they were sent our before the official campaign started, and therefore does not count.

Also, and this is important, the Venice Code, which covers how things like elections and referendums are handled (note, this is what can be used to annul results in certain circumstances), requires that the government sets out its position AND the pros and cons. That was the reason for the leaflet.

Quote:
When a text is put to the vote at the request of a section of the electorate or an authority other than Parliament, Parliament must be able to give a non-binding opinion on the text put to the vote. In the case of the popular initiatives, it may be entitled to put forward a counter-proposal to the proposed text, which will be put to the popular vote at the same time. A deadline must be set for Parliament to give its opinion: if this deadline is not met, the text will be put to the popular vote without Parliament’s opinion.

Page 16 - http://www.venice.coe.int/webforms/docu ... dl-ad(2007)008-e

There’s a lot more in that document, but there bits the cover referendums are interesting in the current context.

The campaign for the Brexit vote started OFFICIALLY on 15th April 2016. Unofficial campaigning started in February of that year.

The leaflet was delivered to households in England from 11 – 13 April. Two days before the official campaign date, and therefore does not fall within the election rules for spending.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... m-leaflet/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaigni ... ndum,_2016

So the argument about the Remain campaign overspending on the Government leaflet is bogus.



Quote:
The Government will provide every household in the UK with a leaflet that sets out why the Government believes that voting to remain in the EU is the best decision for the UK.


not biased at all. the leaflet most differently does not give both sides. thats why i stated in the news thread, cans of worms will be opened, when this goes before a court, if required, after the appeal ...

and just to add.

Quote:
Government's pro-EU publicity blitz gave Remain an unfair advantage in the referendum, bipartisan report suggests

£9.3m pro-EU publicity blitz by David Cameron's government in the run-up to the Brexit referendum gave the Remain side an unfair advantage, the like of which should be outlawed in future votes, an independent commission has suggested.

In a major report, a cross-party panel called for a significant extension of restrictions banning ministers from using unlimited amounts of public money in favour of one side of a debate before the final month of a campaign.

The Independent Commission on Referendums, whose members include Dominic Grieve, the pro-Remain former attorney general, and Gisela Stuart, who co-chaired the official Leave campaign, also recommended that the elections watchdog should be able to seek a court injunction stopping the distribution of any material that would fall foul of the new rules.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... advantage/

as an aside.
i have also signed back up to UKIP and i am not alone.

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Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:34 pm
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I took an online test for German citizenship today. I got 32 / 33 for the "standard" level questions and 31/33 for the difficult question set...

Now looking for an appointment to do the proper test (33 random questions out of database of 300). You get an hour to do the test, I finished the above in about 5 minutes, so, hopefully the test shouldn't prove a big problem.

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Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:15 pm
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Here is the leaflet in HTML form. The Government site also has them in PDF form.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... for-the-uk

Not giving both view points?
What Happens if we Leave?

Quote:
Voting to leave the EU would create years of uncertainty and potential economic disruption. This would reduce investment and cost jobs.24

The government judges it could result in 10 years or more of uncertainty as the UK unpicks our relationship with the EU and renegotiates new arrangements with the EU and over 50 other countries around the world.25

Some argue that we could strike a good deal quickly with the EU because they want to keep access to our market.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... f-we-leave

I would argue that we are not seeing a fast negotiation with the EU happening, nor am I seeing a queue of businesses waiting to set up shop in April 2019.

Quote:
Improving our lives
Cost of living
If the UK voted to leave the EU, the resulting economic shock15 would put pressure on the value of the pound, which would risk higher prices of some household goods16 and damage living standards.17

Losing our full access to the EU’s single market would make exporting to Europe harder and increase costs.18

Travel abroad
Millions of UK citizens travel to Europe each year.19 The EU has made this easier and cheaper.

EU reforms in the 1990s have resulted in a drop in fares of over 40% for lower cost flights.20

From next year, mobile phone roaming charges will be abolished across the EU, saving UK customers up to 38p per minute on calls.21

EU membership also gives UK citizens travelling in other European countries the right to access free or cheaper public healthcare.22

Some argue little would change if we left the EU. But there are no guarantees UK customers would keep these benefits if we left.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -our-lives

The leaflet, which was issued BEFORE the campaign started is not subject to the rules governing the referendum. If it had been issues AFTER the campaign’s official start date, then, yes, it would be subject to scrutiny under those rules. But it isn’t. Issuing such information is a requirement under the Vienna rules.

Given the blanket media coverage that the leave side had well before any of this kicked off, we can safely say that both sides had their say well before the official campaign.

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Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:33 pm
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the remain campaign has not been investigated, yet. only the leave campaign has ...

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Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:44 am
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
the remain campaign has not been investigated, yet. only the leave campaign has ...

Because the Electoral Commission found there was no case to answer based on the complaints received.

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Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:23 am
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davrosG5 wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
the remain campaign has not been investigated, yet. only the leave campaign has ...

Because the Electoral Commission found there was no case to answer based on the complaints received.


this is the first part.

Quote:
The decision of the Electoral Commission (EC) to fine Vote Leave for alleged financial irregularities during the 2016 referendum campaign will delight those who continue to protest that the electorate was somehow duped. The organisation’s offence was not to have included the spending of another group called BeLeave, aimed at younger voters, in its overall figures. This has been adjudged a breach of electoral law and the police may be asked to investigate with a view to prosecution.

There are many aspects of this exercise that are unsatisfactory to say the least. The commission at no stage interviewed senior Vote Leave staff to hear their side of the story and nor did it examine evidence that the group produced in its defence. This is an affront to natural justice. How can the commission have reached the conclusions that it has without adopting a fair and just procedure?


this is the second part.

Quote:
What is most bizarre about this long-running attempt to besmirch the Leave campaign groups that won the referendum is that equal scrutiny is not applied to the Remain side. The notion that Leave financially outgunned Remain is for the birds. Remain not only called on the entire machinery of government to bolster its case, along with big business, the EU, Labour (half-heartedly) and the BBC, it also recruited the US president.

As we now know from a former White House aide, David Cameron personally asked Barack Obama to issue the warning that Britain would be “at the back of the queue” for a US trade deal if it left the EU. The president duly obliged.


this is the third part.

Quote:
Is the Electoral Commission investigating whether the cost of Mr Obama’s visit was counted as an expense by the Remain campaign? And if not, why not? The presidential entourage of Air Force One, backup planes, Secret Service details and armoured limousines probably cost more than the entire Vote Leave budget. Unless there is parity in the Electoral Commission’s approach, this report will look like a politically motivated exercise timed to swing public opinion at a critical moment in the Brexit process.


full article is here but you may not be able to read it.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/201 ... -campaign/

this is still ongoing via due process ...

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Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:20 am
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They haven't managed to make any of this stick but you keep peddling it.
Remain expenditure you keep harping on about either occurred outside the window in which spending limits applied or weren't made by the official campaign or anything that could be tied sufficiently close to it to count (unlike the Leave campaign).
However hard done by you feel about it, the Electoral commission is the independent arbiter of this stuff and has persistently found no case to answer for the accusations levelled at the remain campaign.
Obviously you don't care about that because it doesn't fit with your warped world view but unless that position changes the remain camp has no case to answer.

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Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:52 am
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davrosG5 wrote:
They haven't managed to make any of this stick but you keep peddling it.
Remain expenditure you keep harping on about either occurred outside the window in which spending limits applied or weren't made by the official campaign or anything that could be tied sufficiently close to it to count (unlike the Leave campaign).
However hard done by you feel about it, the Electoral commission is the independent arbiter of this stuff and has persistently found no case to answer for the accusations levelled at the remain campaign.
Obviously you don't care about that because it doesn't fit with your warped world view but unless that position changes the remain camp has no case to answer.


making it stick is very hard when it has never been investigated. i believe once this has moved before a court, after the appeal, then it will be investigated. the remain campaign has very much to answer along with the remain camp. but please do remember, remain lost and are still losing.

but if you look at my posts i am stating that both leave and remain have questions to answer even if i believe the case against leave is biased, but it will not change the result in anyway, shape or form ...

and just to add.

Quote:
Government's pro-EU publicity blitz gave Remain an unfair advantage in the referendum, bipartisan report suggests

£9.3m pro-EU publicity blitz by David Cameron's government in the run-up to the Brexit referendum gave the Remain side an unfair advantage, the like of which should be outlawed in future votes, an independent commission has suggested.

In a major report, a cross-party panel called for a significant extension of restrictions banning ministers from using unlimited amounts of public money in favour of one side of a debate before the final month of a campaign.

The Independent Commission on Referendums, whose members include Dominic Grieve, the pro-Remain former attorney general, and Gisela Stuart, who co-chaired the official Leave campaign, also recommended that the elections watchdog should be able to seek a court injunction stopping the distribution of any material that would fall foul of the new rules.


its in my above post with links ...

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Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:20 pm
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davrosG5 wrote:
They haven't managed to make any of this stick but you keep peddling it.
Remain expenditure you keep harping on about either occurred outside the window in which spending limits applied or weren't made by the official campaign or anything that could be tied sufficiently close to it to count (unlike the Leave campaign).
However hard done by you feel about it, the Electoral commission is the independent arbiter of this stuff and has persistently found no case to answer for the accusations levelled at the remain campaign.
Obviously you don't care about that because it doesn't fit with your warped world view but unless that position changes the remain camp has no case to answer.

Meanwhile, the leave camp has some related police enquires to look forward to, as well as paying some fines.

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Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:00 pm
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Stockpiling seems to the word of last week. Most papers have been reporting on it - this comes as a revelation as two Ministers - including Dominic Raab (the Brexit secretary) admitted that, yes, this is being planned for. Seems that even the most ardent Brexit supporters are moving from “Brexit will be easy” to “stockpiling food and drugs” pretty quickly now.

Also, it seems that even the Brexit secretary isn’t good enough for May to continue negotiations, so she’s doing it herself now.
Quote:
Theresa May is taking personal control of Brexit talks with the EU, with Dominic Raab deputising for her.

Mr Raab was drafted in as Brexit Secretary to replace David Davis, who quit in protest at the prime minister's proposals for post-Brexit trade.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44941792

Apparently he found out on his phone while being questioned at the select committee meeting.

So, it seems that stockpiling food and drugs is a thing.
Quote:
The government is making plans to stockpile vital blood products and medicines in case of a no-deal Brexit, the new health secretary has said.

Matthew Hancock admitted he had already met with industry leaders to discuss building up NHS reserves of vaccinations and other medical supplies if Britain crashes out of the European Union without a deal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 62531.html

People here may well be aware that I am asthmatic. I checked the two inhalers use - and they are both made in EU countries, not here in the UK. I could, I guess, order a few extra over the next few months, but they don’t all have long life span. My (new last week) Ventolin inhaler expires in 2020. This relieves any asthma symptoms, and is the one that I carry with me all the time. So stockpiling them would only be efficient for me if the expiry dates were to be extended - but they aren’t. Any inhaler obtained by me between now and December will all expire sometime in 2020, or possibly 2021.

I also have to think about my dad who need regular medical supplies - he has a stoma and that obviously needs daily attention. I guess he can build up a supply if he feels the need, but even so, he shouldn’t have to.

The problem here is that anyone with medical needs will find that the majority of their medical supplies will not come form the UK, but are imported from abroad. With the target for some being WTO only trading, that could impact heavily on the importing of drugs and medical supplies.

Right now, the asthma is in good order - I actually had one of the regular checks last week and all is well. However, I am well aware that it]s the drugs keeping it under control. Shortages will quickly reverse that for me. A few days without the preventer will cause me to rely heavily on the reliever, which isn’t a good thing as that brings its own problems. Obviously going without both will be problematic for me.

Multiply that by everyone in the country with regular medical needs, and you have a serious problem.

Anyone wishing a no deal Brexit: you’ve lost the argument and the cause.

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Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:49 am
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Drugs giant Sanofi stockpiles 14 WEEKS of medicine as 'nightmare' No Deal Brexit fears grow

Sanofi's statement comes on a dramatic day as councils warned of "social unrest", Jeremy Hunt warned Brexit could become a "terrible mistake" and food bosses branded it a "nightmare"

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... 4-13014958

Welcome to the 2nd August 2015, and it‘s only 9:45 when I posted this.

Quote:
A drugs giant is amassing a 14-WEEK medicine stockpile as fears grow of a "nightmare" no deal Brexit .

French firm Sanofi is increasing its current stocks by four weeks in case there is chaos at UK ports when Britain formally leaves the EU at 11pm on 29 March 2019.

It is also transferring some quality control testing from its site in Haverhill, Suffolk, to the other 27 EU nations, cutting 12 jobs.

It came on a day of dramatic developments, as the head of the Food and Drink Federation warned Brexit is "shaping up to be the stuff of nightmares".


It’s going well, then.

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Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:47 am
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Quote:
Electoral Commission dismisses Tory MP Priti Patel's claims about Remain campaign spending

The Electoral Commission has dismissed allegations made by Tory MP Priti Patel about the spending of pro-EU groups during the 2016 Brexit referendum.

The watchdog said there was no evidence that laws on campaign spending had been breached.

Ms Patel, a prominent Leave supporter, had suggested that the cost of three videos from the main Remain group, Britain Stronger in Europe (BSIE) should have been declared as "joint spending" with other groups.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 74961.html

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Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:08 pm
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to the above comments ...

Quote:
Electoral commission fines Remain campaigners £19,000

Remain campaigners have been fined £19,000 for failing to declare their spending properly during the EU referendum campaign.

The Liberal Democrats were fined £18,000 by the Electoral Commission, near the legal maximum fine of £20,000, mainly for “failing to provide acceptable invoices or receipts for 80 payments”.

“Where the rules are not followed, transparency is lost which is not in the public interest or as parliament intended,” said Bob Posner, the Commission’s legal counsel.

Meanwhile, the official Remain campaign, then known as Britain Stronger in Europe, now Open Britain, has paid a £1,250 fine imposed for not providing three invoices and for declaring some spending in aggregate rather than individual payments.

The Electoral Commission, Britain’s electoral watchdog, is still undertaking high-profile investigations into the official Leave campaign, Vote Leave, and another major Brexit group, Leave.EU and its founder Arron Banks.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2018. All rights reserved.
Comments have not been enabled for this article.


https://www.ft.com/content/2f91721d-951 ... 53897183c8

and just to add too the mix, in case you missed it.

Quote:
Government's pro-EU publicity blitz gave Remain an unfair advantage in the referendum, bipartisan report suggests

£9.3m pro-EU publicity blitz by David Cameron's government in the run-up to the Brexit referendum gave the Remain side an unfair advantage, the like of which should be outlawed in future votes, an independent commission has suggested.

In a major report, a cross-party panel called for a significant extension of restrictions banning ministers from using unlimited amounts of public money in favour of one side of a debate before the final month of a campaign.

The Independent Commission on Referendums, whose members include Dominic Grieve, the pro-Remain former attorney general, and Gisela Stuart, who co-chaired the official Leave campaign, also recommended that the elections watchdog should be able to seek a court injunction stopping the distribution of any material that would fall foul of the new rules.


two wrongs dont make a right, except in exceptional circumstances of 'let right be done', but you were saying. i look forward to the police investigation and a very possible court case ...

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Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:56 pm
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youtube vid discussing brexit in the pub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx4AF-3Rd44


Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:31 pm
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