the only prove of the pudding (or reports) is when we leave the EU, which we most certainly will, everything else is just conjecture and hearsay ...

and again i state.

..and yet you faithfully hoover up and repost every last morsel you find. Or is it just the pro-remain comments that are conjecture and hearsay?

Treasury deliberately produced gloomy Brexit forecasts to keep UK in customs union, top minister suggests
Treasury officials have developed bleak economic forecasts about Brexit in a bid to try to keep Britain in the Customs Union, ministers have been told.

Steve Baker, a Brexit minister, confirmed he had been told that the Treasury had developed an economic model "to show that all options other than staying in the Customs union were bad".

He said that the allegations are "quite extraordinary" and that the Government will proceed with "great caution" on the claims because it wants to "uphold and support the impartiality of the civil service".

During a debate in the Commons Jacob Rees-Mogg, a senior eurosceptic Tory MP, said: "Will my hon friend the minister confirm that he heard from Charles Grant that officials in the Treasury had deliberately developed a model to show that all options other than staying in the customs union were bad and that officials intended to use this to influence policy. If this is correct does he share my view this goes against the independence of civil service."

we could carry on this way ad Infinitum or we can agree to work in the same direction on leaving the EU for the betterment of all.

This is Rees-Mogg making stuff up.

So this is STILL going on?

The EU refuses a soft Brexit, so we must invoke the WTO immediately.

Those who called for a clean Brexit from the outset were right. The Franco-German axis is determined to make a soft arrangement impossible. Any further talking at this point wastes time and tightens the noose around our own necks.

If Britain is to leave the EU – as it must, after a clear popular vote, endorsed by Parliament, and written into the Tory and Labour manifestos – the only way to do so with economic and political coherence is to reassert full sovereign self-government.

Sadly, I have concluded that we are left with no choice other than to invoke our rights as members of the World Trade Organisation and accept tariffs (mostly very low, but still unwelcome) until free trade deals can be agreed one by one with the US, China, Japan, India, and other countries. The wheels should be set in motion immediately. It will be impossible in another six months.

Brexit sums don’t stack up? I agree entirely.

The EU began life as a customs union, the mechanism enshrined in the 1957 Treaty of Rome. It embodies the legal essence of EU membership. EU tariffs, at the same time, make imports from non-EU countries much more expensive, particularly clothing, food and footwear – items on which low-income households spend a large share of their incomes. And these tariffs are paid on goods where there are often no UK jobs to protect, with consumers here facing higher prices to shield inefficient producers in other EU member states from competition.

Four-fifths of such tariffs collected in the UK each year must then be sent to Brussels. And because the UK has a much higher share of non-EU trade than any other EU member, these outbound tariff revenue flows, funded by higher prices in the shops, are disproportionately high. Such vital considerations barely feature in Whitehall’s “sums”.

This report then claims that switching to a Canada-style free-trade agreement with the EU, representing only a modest change from the status quo, would see the UK economy lose no less than 5pc of GDP over the next 15 years. Cutting a trade agreement with the US, in contrast, transforming our commercial relations with the world’s biggest economy, would add just 0.2pc. Really? British exports to the EU are obviously bigger – 40pc of the total, with 15pc going to the States. But a huge 5pc of GDP loss for a small rise in tariffs compared with a minuscule 0.2pc gain for a decisive move towards free trade? I don’t think so.

ahh, thought as we were all getting old ...

sorry its the original image size ..

I'll leave just one more worrying quote before I move on to matters on which I can have an effect .....

"The nation and the government are one thing. The will of the people is the will of the government and vice versa. The modern structure of the State is a higher form of democracy [ennobled democracy] in which, by virtue of the people’s mandate, the government is exercised authoritatively while there is no possibility for parliamentary interference, to obliterate and render ineffective the execution of the nation’s will."

- Joseph Goebbels.