Reply to topic  [ 925 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54 ... 62  Next
Brexit Britain 
Author Message
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:53 pm
Posts: 8603
Location: location, location
Reply with quote
Now correct me if I'm wrong (I may well be), but say we decide not to agree to the 2nd worst trade deal in history & go WTO (worst trade deal in history).
Does that still not still leave us with the massive problems of actually getting goods we've traded in & out of the country?
We may be able to trade (with heavy tarrifs) but we still won't be allowed to land planes, cross borders with trucks etc

How would thethe majority of Leave voters feel when they suddenly realise that a "no deal" Brexit means we can't get booze & fags in to the country any more?

_________________
Support X404, use our Amazon link
Get your X404 tat here
jonlumb wrote:
I've only ever done it with a chicken so far, but if required I wouldn't have any problems doing it with other animals at all.


Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:15 am
Profile WWW
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
big_D wrote:
Except WTO would still be worse than the deal. Again, WTO is for those who are incapable of coming to a trade agreement and define what the worst terms possible are.

It will also be interesting to hear how the deals with all the non-EU nations are going, now that the EU conditions with those countries are out of the windows...


The WTO works in an interesting way, and we’ve already fallen foul of it. We don’t just rock up and say “hey, we want to trade under WTO rules” and off we go.

We actually have to say what we want to trade, what tariffs we’ll be applying, and so on. It‘s quite detailed. Then the other WTO countries have a think about it and come back with an acceptance or a rejection. The thing is, if we have a competing country that doesn’t like out tariffs on their products, then they can easily veto our proposal. In essence, one country can shut our trading plans down.

Oh, hello, Russia.

Quote:
Russia seeks to capitalise on Brexit after blocking Liam Fox's WTO plan
Russia is among 20 countries that are looking to squeeze a commercial advantage from Brexit after blocking an attempt by the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, to fast-track a World Trade Organization deal on the UK’s terms of trade with the world.

Whitehall is now facing “up to two dozen” different negotiations with countries over how much meat and dairy produce will be permitted into the British market and what tariffs the UK will set on imports.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... to-plan-uk

This is another major hurdle, and our relations with Russia aren’t that great at the moment, so they’ll be quite keen on throwing us under a bus. Also, Liam Fox is doing this, so, well, you know.

Trading under WTO rules is not the easy option that people think it is.

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:19 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm
Posts: 10691
Location: Bramsche
Reply with quote
So, the German B1 and the citizenship tests are both out of the way. I have to wait 6 weeks for the certificates, but I know that I have passed the B1 and I think I'm well over the required minimum in the citizenship test.

Of the 30 people taking the test today, about a third were British.

_________________
"Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari

Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246


Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:55 pm
Profile ICQ
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
Aaron Banks may have p1ssed on the Brexit chips

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 49001.html

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:50 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 12700
Location: The Right Side of the Pennines (metaphorically & geographically)
Reply with quote
I think for Brexiteers and Remainers alike, the best sceanario now is:
1) Deal fails to get voted in by parliament
2) PM delcares the public will decide in a two questions referendum:

Question 1) Should we accept the deal that has been negotiated? Yes/No
Question 2) If not, should we leave the EU without a deal or remain in the EU?

_________________
pcernie wrote:
'I'm going to snort this off your arse - for the benefit of government statistics, of course.'


Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:33 pm
Profile WWW
I haven't seen my friends in so long
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:06 pm
Posts: 6355
Location: IoW
Reply with quote
l3v1ck wrote:
I think for Brexiteers and Remainers alike, the best sceanario now is:
1) Deal fails to get voted in by parliament
2) PM delcares the public will decide in a two questions referendum:

Question 1) Should we accept the deal that has been negotiated? Yes/No
Question 2) If not, should we leave the EU without a deal or remain in the EU?

Should we accept the deal? The one that is actually worse than remaining in the EU? Really can't see that being a popular choice. Although I am reckoning without the sound and rational reasoning skills of the 17m [LIFTED] that voted for this mess in the first place.

_________________
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes; after that, who cares?! He's a mile away and you've got his shoes!


Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:20 pm
Profile
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
Spreadie wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
I think for Brexiteers and Remainers alike, the best sceanario now is:
1) Deal fails to get voted in by parliament
2) PM delcares the public will decide in a two questions referendum:

Question 1) Should we accept the deal that has been negotiated? Yes/No
Question 2) If not, should we leave the EU without a deal or remain in the EU?

Should we accept the deal? The one that is actually worse than remaining in the EU? Really can't see that being a popular choice. Although I am reckoning without the sound and rational reasoning skills of the 17m [LIFTED] that voted for this mess in the first place.


17,410,742 free thinking individuals to be exact ...

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:57 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
Quote:
Three visible paths out of the current Brexit fog

So where are we now on Brexit?

We are in a fog.

We are in a situation the outcome of which nobody can predict, at least with any certainty.

There is no pundit, no official, no politician who knows what will happen with Brexit.

In this fog, however, there are paths which are currently more visible than any others.


http://jackofkent.com/2018/11/three-vis ... rexit-fog/

Coming this week - the EU General Court hears the EU Citizen case. Can UK citizens still be EU citizens after Brexit?

Coming soon - the “Meaningful Vote” which is parliament deciding on May’s deal. Nothing here that key allies, including the DUP, are likely to vote against it. Expect May & cabinet to ramp up selling this deal to everyone and anyone. Maybe more resignations, and possibly an uptick of pressure from the ERG in getting a no confidence vote in May.

Also coming later - a private case against Boris Johnson for lying in office. (I don’t have much more on this, but let’s see where that one goes).

Possible event - Corbyn & May debating all of this on TV.

Another possible event - Tory leadership campaign / General Election as May realises she can’t push her deal through, or she loses the vote in the Commons.

Coming soon - Christmas break. Two weeks when bugger all happens in politics.

The next few weeks will be interesting.

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:35 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:25 pm
Posts: 10691
Location: Bramsche
Reply with quote
paulzolo wrote:
Coming this week - the EU General Court hears the EU Citizen case. Can UK citizens still be EU citizens after Brexit?

I'm already assuming the worst on this and getting my German citizenship.

_________________
"Do you know what this is? Hmm? No, I can see you do not. You have that vacant look in your eyes, which says hold my head to your ear, you will hear the sea!" - Londo Molari

Executive Producer No Agenda Show 246


Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:30 am
Profile ICQ
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
Quote:
Brexit will make UK worse off, government forecasts warn
The UK will be poorer economically under any form of Brexit, compared with staying in the EU, government analysis suggests.

Official figures say the UK economy could be up to 3.9% smaller after 15 years under Theresa May's Brexit plan, compared with staying in the EU.

But a no-deal Brexit could deliver a 9.3% hit, the new estimates say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:36 pm
Profile
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
i am posting an article from the Guardian. please have a read it hits a lot of nails on the head ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -deal-risk

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:26 am
Profile
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
i am posting an article from the Guardian. please have a read it hits a lot of nails on the head ...

Quote:
But there begins my angst. For if – when – her deal goes down, we take a very large stride towards the abyss that is no deal.

Of course, everyone says that there’s no Commons majority for no deal; there is a consensus that it would be a catastrophe. But a consensus is not enough. Thanks to laws already passed, Britain will leave without a deal on 29 March 2019 unless some other legal mechanism is put in place: no deal is the legal default. The fact that everyone agrees it would be awful is nice, but that consensus is useless unless MPs can also agree on an alternative. We’ve spent much of November marking the centenary of the first world war: we should know that great and powerful nations are capable of walking into disaster quite by accident.

Still, advocates of a people’s vote counsel that pro-remain MPs just need to hold their nerve, reject the May deal and then, in the ensuing chaos, make their push for a second referendum. But, as things stand, the numbers are not encouraging. Even if Labour came off the fence and backed a new referendum, the effort could still fall short: there are enough Labour leavers who would rebel to cancel out those Tories who currently back a people’s vote.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -deal-risk

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:27 am
Profile
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
anybody heard of the 'The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980' ...

Quote:
There is, indeed, an international treaty about international treaties. The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980 and no one has much heard of it. It did, though, attract the attention of a House of Lords select committee during the initial debates about triggering Article 50. The basic point about the Vienna Convention is that, yes, the UK could walk away from a treaty with the EU (eg the EU-UK withdrawal agreement or the forthcoming potential free trade agreement) if it wishes. Article 70 of the Vienna Convention, entitled “Consequences of the termination of a treaty”, provides: “1. Unless the treaty otherwise provides or the parties otherwise agree, the termination of a treaty under its provisions or in accordance with the present Convention:

a) releases the parties from any obligation further to perform the treaty;

b) does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.”

So, was Cox asked whether the UK could, in effect, just tear up its new EU treaties, and do so quite legally under this obscure international convention? If so, what did Cox advise?


Quote:
“Importantly, the CJEU [European Court] has in the past relied on the Vienna Convention to interpret EU law. In a judgement in 2010 it stated that, while the Vienna Convention did not legally bind the EU, or all of its member states, provisions of the Vienna Convention that reflected customary international law were binding on the EU.

“The court has held that, even though the Vienna Convention does not bind either the community or all its member states, a series of provisions in that convention reflect the rules of customary international law which, as such, are binding upon the community institutions and form part of the community legal order.”


full article ...
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 67296.html

interesting to say the least ...

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:47 pm
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
As you may have seen last night, the Government got a quadruple whammy of things that did not go their way yesterday:

Quote:
Article 50: Law officer says UK can cancel Brexit
The UK should be able to unilaterally cancel its withdrawal from the EU, according to a top European law officer.

The non-binding opinion was delivered by an advocate general of the European Court of Justice.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-46428579

This is currently an opinion, but it’s usual that such opinions become a fact. Out government spent a lot of money trying to block this ruling.

Quote:
Theresa May suffers three Brexit defeats in Commons
Theresa May has suffered three Brexit defeats in the Commons as she set out to sell her EU deal to sceptical MPs.

Ministers have agreed to publish the government's full legal advice on the deal after MPs found them in contempt of Parliament for issuing a summary.

And MPs backed calls for the Commons to have a direct say in what happens if the PM's deal is rejected next Tuesday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46446694

All this before May had to open the 5 day debate about the draft agreement. As of yesterday, this seems to be an uphill struggle.

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:39 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
MrStevenRogers wrote:
anybody heard of the 'The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980' ...

Quote:
There is, indeed, an international treaty about international treaties. The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties was ratified in 1980 and no one has much heard of it. It did, though, attract the attention of a House of Lords select committee during the initial debates about triggering Article 50. The basic point about the Vienna Convention is that, yes, the UK could walk away from a treaty with the EU (eg the EU-UK withdrawal agreement or the forthcoming potential free trade agreement) if it wishes. Article 70 of the Vienna Convention, entitled “Consequences of the termination of a treaty”, provides: “1. Unless the treaty otherwise provides or the parties otherwise agree, the termination of a treaty under its provisions or in accordance with the present Convention:

a) releases the parties from any obligation further to perform the treaty;

b) does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.”

So, was Cox asked whether the UK could, in effect, just tear up its new EU treaties, and do so quite legally under this obscure international convention? If so, what did Cox advise?


Quote:
“Importantly, the CJEU [European Court] has in the past relied on the Vienna Convention to interpret EU law. In a judgement in 2010 it stated that, while the Vienna Convention did not legally bind the EU, or all of its member states, provisions of the Vienna Convention that reflected customary international law were binding on the EU.

“The court has held that, even though the Vienna Convention does not bind either the community or all its member states, a series of provisions in that convention reflect the rules of customary international law which, as such, are binding upon the community institutions and form part of the community legal order.”


full article ...
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 67296.html

interesting to say the least ...


I believe I have. I mentioned it earlier in this thread (or many another one). It also has provisions for dealing with elections and referendums which are deemed to be fraudulent. Given the current state of the 2016 referendum, it could well apply. However, as that referendum was non binding - there was no legal requirement in the Act for the government to do anything about it - it doesn’t apply here, though it is possible that other avenues of legislation could be explored to nullify the result and the consequential laws laid down following it.

Interesting times, etc..

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:42 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 925 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54 ... 62  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.