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Brexit Britain 
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paulzolo wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
They can't bring back a hard border because there never was one. The border between NI and the RoI has never been anything approaching 'hard'.


"Hard border" has come to mean checkpoints, towers, and fences with barbed wire all over them. Like they were during The Troubles.

Yes, but they were never there. Well, some were, in the odd place or two. But the border was never 'sealed' in any sense that means anything at all. Even at the height of the troubles there were vast swathes of the border that were unsecured and unpatrolled. They basically staked out the main roads and the obvious crossing spots and that was it. There was never a wall, like between Israel and Palestine or the old Berlin segregation. There was never hundreds of miles of barbed wire and sentry posts every hundred yards.

There is simply not the resources, either domestic police wise or in terms of the whole UK military, to completely secure the border in any meaningful way. We can't even secure 30 miles of roadways around Calais, let alone 300 miles of Irish border and all the relevant coastlines. It would cost tens of billions of pounds, thousands of men and years to even begin to attempt to and it would be a frankly fruitless act if we did.

In all the list of utterly cloud cuckoo things Brexiters think will 'just get sorted out', the hardening of the Irish border is right up there at the top of barking-ometer.


Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:18 pm
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jonbwfc wrote:
paulzolo wrote:
jonbwfc wrote:
They can't bring back a hard border because there never was one. The border between NI and the RoI has never been anything approaching 'hard'.


"Hard border" has come to mean checkpoints, towers, and fences with barbed wire all over them. Like they were during The Troubles.

Yes, but they were never there. Well, some were, in the odd place or two. But the border was never 'sealed' in any sense that means anything at all. Even at the height of the troubles there were vast swathes of the border that were unsecured and unpatrolled. They basically staked out the main roads and the obvious crossing spots and that was it. There was never a wall, like between Israel and Palestine or the old Berlin segregation. There was never hundreds of miles of barbed wire and sentry posts every hundred yards.

There is simply not the resources, either domestic police wise or in terms of the whole UK military, to completely secure the border in any meaningful way. We can't even secure 30 miles of roadways around Calais, let alone 300 miles of Irish border and all the relevant coastlines. It would cost tens of billions of pounds, thousands of men and years to even begin to attempt to and it would be a frankly fruitless act if we did.

In all the list of utterly cloud cuckoo things Brexiters think will 'just get sorted out', the hardening of the Irish border is right up there at the top of barking-ometer.


This might be of interest then:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41183041

Quote:
The UK has said it wants an "unprecedented solution", avoiding physical checks at the border.

But no agreement has been reached so far on how this can be achieved, given the UK's decision to leave the EU's customs union after Brexit.


The referendum made no mention of leaving the customs union, just the EU.

Part of me hopes this this is a staring contest, and at some moment, someone important will pop up and say “this won’t work, not in a million years, let’s cancel this follly before any more damage is done” and be done with it. However, that’s the fantasist in me (the one that hopes that some eccentric millionaire will give me a large bag of money like they do in the last frame of a strip in The Beano).

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Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:26 am
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paulzolo wrote:
The referendum made no mention of leaving the customs union, just the EU.

To be fair we were never going to get one without the other. Lots of people pointed that out before the vote, of course, but they were 'experts' and who needs them eh?

paulzolo wrote:
Part of me hopes this this is a staring contest, and at some moment, someone important will pop up and say “this won’t work, not in a million years, let’s cancel this follly before any more damage is done” and be done with it. However, that’s the fantasist in me (the one that hopes that some eccentric millionaire will give me a large bag of money like they do in the last frame of a strip in The Beano).

The people running this now don't care. Literally. They just don't care. They have had smart people from pretty much every walk of life - science, religion, business... - telling them it's a suicidally stupid thing to do since before the referendum and they've carried on regardless. They're just not interested in questioning it or analysing it. They will have what they want and the consequences are irrelevant. Or, more accurately, they won't be affected in any significant way by any of the consequences so why should they worry about what they are?


Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:01 pm
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The government's bid to extract the UK from EU law in time for Brexit has passed its first Parliamentary test.
MPs backed the EU Withdrawal Bill by 326 to 290 in a late-night vote despite critics saying it represented a "power-grab" by the government.
The bill, which will end the supremacy of EU law in the UK, now moves onto its next Parliamentary stage.
Ministers sought to reassure MPs by considering calls for safeguards over their use of new powers.
Having cleared its second reading hurdle, the bill will now face more attempts to change it with Conservative MPs believed to have tabled new amendments.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41235522


Quote:
THERESA May has won the first big test of her new minority government, gaining support from Labour MPs on the second reading of the EU repeal bill.
The bill will allow EU law to be passed into UK common law, allowing for a smooth transition as Britain makes its way out of the 27 member state bloc.

The bill will now move onto the committee stage before being given royal assent after being passed by 326 votes to 290.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ent-Brexit


Quote:
Government wins vote on EU withdrawal bill with majority of 36. Full list of MP's who voted for or against the bill at second reading.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live

happy days the next step is to wave bye bye to the EU ...

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Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:24 am
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Yay, the ability to bugger up decades of legislation with little to no parliamentary scrutiny has been handed to the Maybots government.
What could possible go wrong?

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Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:51 am
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What will happen to all the EN standards? Will we just use the latest BS EN and stop updating?
In my job we use a mix of BS, BS EN, BS EN ISO, DIN, French standards, it's going to be a mess


Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:57 am
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TheFrenchun wrote:
What will happen to all the EN standards? Will we just use the latest BS EN and stop updating?
In my job we use a mix of BS, BS EN, BS EN ISO, DIN, French standards, it's going to be a mess

I don't see why not. Also, one thing the Brexiteer's seem to be glossing over or failing to admit is that if we want to continue to trade with the EU after we've left anything we sell into the EU will have to meet EU standards anyway so whatever British Standards we adopt will have to be at least as good as the EU ones (with demonstrable equivalency), at least for anything we want to export to the EU.
The government of the day may be willing to accept lower standards for stuff coming into the UK (farm produce from the USA springs to mind) but anything we want to export will have to meet whatever standards the importing nation or area sets. And we will have given away pretty much all of our ability to influence that standards of our nearest neighbours.

The Brexit lot moan about EU rules, just wait until they get a load of what's dictated to us in order to secure all these fabulous trade deals we're going to make with the rest of the world.

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Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:03 am
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Yeah, the pro-Brexit lot do seem to think it's possible to negotiate favourable trade deals from a position of weakness.

The irony is, they voted Leave because they hate foreigners having influence over our policies! Buckle up, numpties, it's going to get a whole lot worse.

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Last edited by Spreadie on Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:23 am
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Spreadie wrote:
Yeah, the pro-Brexit lot do seem to think it's possible to negotiable favourable trade deals from a position of weakness.

The irony is, they voted Leave because they hate foreigners having influence over our policies! Buckle up, numpties, it's going to get a whole lot worse.


Yup, stupid is as stupid does.

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Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:56 am
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paulzolo wrote:
A thread where we can log news stories and events that are affected or caused by Brexit. I hope this won’t be a recording of our descent into madness.

To kick off:
Quote:
Harlow murder: Polish officers patrol streets where Arek Jozwik was killed
Two Polish police officers have started patrols in a town where a Polish man died after being punched to the ground.

Arek Jozwik, 39, was attacked in Harlow, Essex, last month. Two Polish men were assaulted in the town a few days later at a vigil for Mr Jozwik.

Polish officers are there to "reassure the community", Essex Police said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37374579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You may recall that a Polish man was killed in Harlow last month, in an apparent “hate crime” incident.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37227313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Elsewhere, a Leeds woman is verbally abused whilst be interviewed by Channel 4. I posted this in the EU Referendum thread earlier.
Quote:
I find this incredibly sad https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status ... 00/video/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://twitter.com/Hayley_Barlow/statu ... 6740255744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And from the Independent in July:
Quote:
Hate crimes surge by 42% in England and Wales since Brexit result
Police have said the number of hate crimes recorded for the last two weeks in June has spiked by 42 per cent on this time last year.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 26706.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Feel free to add what you find.


a bit of an update on this ...

the boy who punched Mr Jozwik – he is now aged 16 and can’t be named for legal reasons – was sentenced to three-and-a-half years in a young offender institution for manslaughter.

Quote:
It was made clear to Chelmsford Crown Court at his trial that this sad incident had nothing to do with Brexit or hate crime. In fact, the court heard that Mr Jozwik was drunk and had racially abused a friend of the boy, who retaliated.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09 ... ly-misery/

not all things are what you would like them to seem ...

i do hope exit from the EU hurries along.

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Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:01 pm
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Xenophobic abuse is not new, I experienced it over 10 years ago. I’ve also had people rant at me that’s i was taking their jobs ( yeah... ). I’m lucky I pass as British in day to day life.
My friend who is British but looks foreign got told to [LIFTED] off home recently, that’s new but that’s what happens when xenophobia is institutionalised.


Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:39 am
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TheFrenchun wrote:
Xenophobic abuse is not new, I experienced it over 10 years ago. I’ve also had people rant at me that’s i was taking their jobs ( yeah... ). I’m lucky I pass as British in day to day life.
My friend who is British but looks foreign got told to [LIFTED] off home recently, that’s new but that’s what happens when xenophobia is institutionalised.


i had something similar happen to me.
while driving my bus in Watford a lorry driver (English by the sound of him) who had decided to pull in front of me also decided to give me a mouthful in regard to stopping at a bus stop with parked cars in the bus stop (unable to get to the kerb). it was only when he shouted 'i should fcuk off back home', thats when i got out of my cab and gave him a mouthful in full blown London cockney. needless to say the air was very blue.

he drove off very red faced. it did make me chuckle.
but not everybody is xenophobic ...

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Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:08 am
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Ex-Bank of England Governor urges UK to WALK AWAY from Brexit talks & trade on WTO rules


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/856878 ... -bloomberg

been stating that all along. give 90 days notice then slap WTO on the table and walk away.
i have a feeling thats whats gonna happen at the end of the day and be the final result.

we cant hurry out of the EU fast enough ...

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Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:14 pm
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
Quote:
Ex-Bank of England Governor urges UK to WALK AWAY from Brexit talks & trade on WTO rules


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/856878 ... -bloomberg

been stating that all along. give 90 days notice then slap WTO on the table and walk away.
i have a feeling thats whats gonna happen at the end of the day and be the final result.

we cant hurry out of the EU fast enough ...


The problem with that is if we just go off in a strop, reneging on any agreements we made while members of the EU, how will that look to other potential trading partners? It will look as if the UK doesn’t respect agreements when it doesn’t suit them. We could lose valuable deals because of that.

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Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:44 am
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And many UK companies that rely on exports and services to the EU will find themselves left high and dry.

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Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:50 am
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