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| Tories declare students a burden on us all http://x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8774 |
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| Author: | forquare1 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:21 am ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Tories declare students a burden on us all | |||||||||
Continue reading here. I don't think students are a burden at all. Universities on the other hand... |
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| Author: | pcernie [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
I have to say, whether you agree with a given issue or not, the downturn has at least given MPs and ministers the balls to say publicly what maybe should have been said long ago... |
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| Author: | big_D [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
The students are a burden on the general population. They will, hopefully, in the long term more than pay off what they "borrowed" from the population. The question is whether it is an "unacceptable" burden or not, and that is a matter of personal opinion. If we take away the "burden" of students, universities will become elitist, again, with only the super-rich being able to afford to send their offspring. |
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| Author: | adidan [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
It may not be so much of a problem if they didn't encourage everyone to go to University to get their BA in worthless sh1te degree and leave it for the study of useful subjects. |
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| Author: | jonbwfc [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:27 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all | |||||||||
Universities as they once were - seats of higher learning and research by highly trained small groups - were actually of benefit to the country as a whole. When research was priority, they produces a lot of 'cool stuff'. However in the past decade or so, they have essentially been forced by government policy to change into graduate factories whose main function is keeping a big chunk of 18-21 year olds off the dole figures. We get the universities we pay for - central government research funding is now diminished and Universities are expected to make ends meet by pulling in more and more students who are forced to pay for being there - and we get the Universities we voted for. The last lot absolutely screwed up the University system rotten. The new lot didn't try to stop them and nobody listened to the people at the Universities who were telling everyone how the system was being screwed up and what the effect was going to be. So frankly I'll ignore the posturing and try to carry on trying to do my job with the 25% less manpower and funding but twice as many students as I had 10 years ago thank you very much. |
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| Author: | Amnesia10 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:45 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all | |||||||||
And why I do not think that they are a burden. We may not need 50% of our kids to go to university. It does not help them if they cannot get a job because there are too many others with degrees, and loads them up with debt. I would rather have a free (for most) education system with far fewer going to university and the rich still still having to pay through the nose. |
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| Author: | forquare1 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
I think Jon's right, certainly in as much as saying that today University=ies are there to teach and less so for research. For someone like myself, I should probably have gone to some sort of collage or polytechnic to learn about computing as I have very little interest in the world of academics. I love to learn, but proving what I know via pointless tests and tasks just doesn't interest me. At the end of four years I've not got the skills required to go into the field I want to go into and the most I have learnt was on my year out working. My main problem with universities (or perhaps it's only Aber) is that I'm paying money to be here, and yet the uni doesn't seem to think that money is important. It wastes the money on too many administrative staff, equipment that won't get used by many, upgrading the toilets when most of the lecture halls are older and in a worse condition... I'm paying for my education (ok, currently with public money), but I don't feel that the university listens, and they don't listen because they don't realise that I'm paying to be there. They seem stuck in the system of "you're here because you're very special individuals" as apposed to "let's do everything we can for you because you're paying customers". |
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| Author: | Nick [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
I think that some students can be a burden. It doesn't benefit the country to have god knows how many thousands of photography graduates going for only a handful of jobs. But if you look at other fields and degrees, then there is a real benefit to the country. Dentistry is probably one example. If you have suitable graduate jobs for every graduate, then how is that a burden? There are clear benefits in that case. |
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| Author: | Linux_User [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
This, of course, comes from MPs - who got their education for free. Yes, that's right, free. Do I see them voluntarily repaying that money now they're on 65K+? Do I [LIFTED]. I'm about to graduate with £24k worth of debt, if I actually actively thought about that I'm not sure I'd get any sleep. |
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| Author: | finlay666 [ Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:34 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all | |||||||||
It's not THAT bad though, it's nowhere near as crippling as the US education system (medical students with over $100,000 of debt is not uncommon, IIRC medicine students in the UK don't pay tuition fees I think.... possibly the same with nursing etc) Sure you have a load of debt, but you pay it off when you are earning, more you earn the quicker you pay it off, it's an investment in personal development at the end of the day |
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| Author: | dogbert10 [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
I have to agree - the last government seems to use it as an excuse stop school-leavers ending up on the dole queue, but how many people do you need with degrees in Sports Management or American Studies? The problem is getting the right people into University to study the right subjects and providing support for those that do. Teenagers shouldn't see a degree as a meal ticket to a well-paid job. Do the wrong subject and you can end up in a worse position than if you'd not bothered at all. It should also be a prerequisite that students shouldn't need remedial courses in maths and English. Bring back more apprenticeships - that way you fit people to the job, not the other way around. |
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| Author: | adidan [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tories declare students a burden on us all |
Aye, the logic is that students should incur debt as they will earn more. Crap. Maybe in the past when degrees weren't ten a penny but that's certainly not the case today. Salma Yaqoob on Question Time made a good point, if you do earn more from gaining a degree then you pay back more through taxation. Also, that students are a small burden on the system if you consider that the Government only gets about £2 billion from tuition fees whereas if you increased corporate income tax to the average of that in Europe it would raise £46 billion. Cuts, changes to taxation yes. But really, stop playing with relatively small fry figures and aim the changes where it counts and where it will make a difference. |
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