Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Carillon ... 
Author Message
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
Quote:
Carillon, the second largest Government contractor, went into liquidation on Tuesday morning.
Around 20,000 jobs are at risk after bosses at the stricken firm said they had "no choice but to take steps to enter into compulsory liquidation with immediate effect”.


my sympathy goes out to those that have lost their jobs.
but this is a problem that was created by all major party's, who seemed to enjoy dancing on the death bed of public service ...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/90524 ... tony-blair

ps. this is not, as far as i am aware, EU related ...

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:54 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
At the end of 2016, they were blaming the reorganisation of Whitehall after the Brexit vote for the slow down of orders.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... referendum

Here the blame is laid more squarely at aggressive expansion and trying to recover too late.
Quote:
Carillion tried to sober up too late: the hard work of cutting debt and dividends only began in 2017. Short-sellers sniffed blood as money owed to the company from clients piled up.

The U.K. government also seems to have had an equally over-optimistic approach to Carillion. Last year, as Theresa May promised a modern industrial strategy fit for "Global Britain", her government was still doling out contracts to Carillion even after it issued profit warnings.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articl ... and-brexit

The article continues:

Quote:
The structural problems in the U.K. market, though, go way beyond Carillion. The market is fragmented and highly competitive. Operating margins are estimated to be in the low single digits, about half those of France.

[...]

Even without Carillion, the British market remains fragmented, according to UBS analysts. With jobs and the prosperity of Brexit Britain at stake, Carillion's demise will hopefully jolt the U.K. into improving its procurement market. That means, at least, paying more attention to a contractor's financial health while also doing what it can to keep trading ties with European partners, including France. There are lessons here for all.

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:21 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:53 pm
Posts: 8603
Location: location, location
Reply with quote
MrStevenRogers wrote:

ps. this is not, as far as i am aware, EU related ...


Partly is ;)
After the Brexit vote, a lot of the investors & developers etc pulled their projects from the UK and a lot of materials for projects that were underway were also bought in Euro's so when the vote caused the pound to drop in value, it killed their margins, caused losses and wiped out operational budget.

_________________
Support X404, use our Amazon link
Get your X404 tat here
jonlumb wrote:
I've only ever done it with a chicken so far, but if required I wouldn't have any problems doing it with other animals at all.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:56 pm
Profile WWW
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
saspro wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:

ps. this is not, as far as i am aware, EU related ...


Partly is ;)
After the Brexit vote, a lot of the investors & developers etc pulled their projects from the UK and a lot of materials for projects that were underway were also bought in Euro's so when the vote caused the pound to drop in value, it killed their margins, caused losses and wiped out operational budget.


if that is the case, which i doubt, i hope more big PFI/PPP company's go to the wall, enabling these sorts of contracts to be brought back in house. ie Govt./Nationally controlled totally. very big smiley :) ...

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:11 pm
Profile
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
paulzolo wrote:
At the end of 2016, they were blaming the reorganisation of Whitehall after the Brexit vote for the slow down of orders.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... referendum

Here the blame is laid more squarely at aggressive expansion and trying to recover too late.
Quote:
Carillion tried to sober up too late: the hard work of cutting debt and dividends only began in 2017. Short-sellers sniffed blood as money owed to the company from clients piled up.

The U.K. government also seems to have had an equally over-optimistic approach to Carillion. Last year, as Theresa May promised a modern industrial strategy fit for "Global Britain", her government was still doling out contracts to Carillion even after it issued profit warnings.

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articl ... and-brexit

The article continues:

Quote:
The structural problems in the U.K. market, though, go way beyond Carillion. The market is fragmented and highly competitive. Operating margins are estimated to be in the low single digits, about half those of France.

[...]

Even without Carillion, the British market remains fragmented, according to UBS analysts. With jobs and the prosperity of Brexit Britain at stake, Carillion's demise will hopefully jolt the U.K. into improving its procurement market. That means, at least, paying more attention to a contractor's financial health while also doing what it can to keep trading ties with European partners, including France. There are lessons here for all.



the world will end tomorrow it will be a 'hard sun' because of Brexit. then we will not have to worry about leave or remain.
i see no comments on the workers that have lost jobs and the management taking massive salaries and bonuses, shareholders being paid dividends and pension funds going bust. but that is to be expected.

well done you two the spearhead of the remoan camp bringing forth more project fear, please keep it coming i just love it ...

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:13 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:53 pm
Posts: 8603
Location: location, location
Reply with quote
MrStevenRogers wrote:

i see no comments on the workers that have lost jobs and the management taking massive salaries and bonuses, shareholders being paid dividends and pension funds going bust. but that is to be expected.

well done you two the spearhead of the remoan camp bringing forth more project fear, please keep it coming i just love it ...


Sympathy isn't news or related to a news thread (which by definition should be factual & not a badly written opinion piece).

Until the autopsy has happened, there's not enough evidence to say exactly where the blame is. We'll probably never know the full story, far too much government involvement in that company for the truth to come out.

I'm quite surprised you'd have any sympathy at all, most of the workers were European. It was the Brits running the show that made all the money then screwed everybody else.

_________________
Support X404, use our Amazon link
Get your X404 tat here
jonlumb wrote:
I've only ever done it with a chicken so far, but if required I wouldn't have any problems doing it with other animals at all.


Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:49 pm
Profile WWW
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
saspro wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:

i see no comments on the workers that have lost jobs and the management taking massive salaries and bonuses, shareholders being paid dividends and pension funds going bust. but that is to be expected.

well done you two the spearhead of the remoan camp bringing forth more project fear, please keep it coming i just love it ...


Sympathy isn't news or related to a news thread (which by definition should be factual & not a badly written opinion piece).

Until the autopsy has happened, there's not enough evidence to say exactly where the blame is. We'll probably never know the full story, far too much government involvement in that company for the truth to come out.

I'm quite surprised you'd have any sympathy at all, most of the workers were European. It was the Brits running the show that made all the money then screwed everybody else.


news piece ...

Carillon has gone bust.

i will leave the rest to your good self, i shall await with anticipation ...

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:17 pm
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 12700
Location: The Right Side of the Pennines (metaphorically & geographically)
Reply with quote
This is what happens when the lowest bidder wins contracts. Companies risk underestimating costs to ensure they get the work. Any company that put in a accurate bid for a huge project would never be awarded the work as other companies would 'offer better value'.

_________________
pcernie wrote:
'I'm going to snort this off your arse - for the benefit of government statistics, of course.'


Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:22 am
Profile WWW
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
l3v1ck wrote:
This is what happens when the lowest bidder wins contracts. Companies risk underestimating costs to ensure they get the work. Any company that put in a accurate bid for a huge project would never be awarded the work as other companies would 'offer better value'.


These “better value” deals always inflate and expand afterwards anyway, as the true cost of the job become apparent. People fuss and moan that costs spiral, but I can’t help thinking that the true costs are surfacing.

HS2, Hinkley Point, even Bradwell’s eventual upgrade, will cost a lot more than the numbers on the contracts.

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:49 am
Profile
I haven't seen my friends in so long
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:37 am
Posts: 6954
Location: Peebo
Reply with quote
paulzolo wrote:
l3v1ck wrote:
This is what happens when the lowest bidder wins contracts. Companies risk underestimating costs to ensure they get the work. Any company that put in a accurate bid for a huge project would never be awarded the work as other companies would 'offer better value'.


These “better value” deals always inflate and expand afterwards anyway, as the true cost of the job become apparent. People fuss and moan that costs spiral, but I can’t help thinking that the true costs are surfacing.

HS2, Hinkley Point, even Bradwell’s eventual upgrade, will cost a lot more than the numbers on the contracts.


This is something that always bugged me. If a bid has been won at a certain price then surely the obligation (and the associated) risk is on the winning bidder to absorb the costs rather than the state to keep paying more. That sounds more like blackmail to me. Until the tendering rules include sufficient disincentive to not low-ball the offer with confidence that you'll be able to bolt on extra later then we as a country will keep getting stung by this sort of thing.

_________________
When they put teeth in your mouth, they spoiled a perfectly good bum.
-Billy Connolly (to a heckler)


Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:04 pm
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 12700
Location: The Right Side of the Pennines (metaphorically & geographically)
Reply with quote
The problem with that is that some projects are so big that there's no way a company could afford to take that risk given the cost of genuinely unforeseen issued. No company is going to go into a project if there's a 50/50 chance it will bankrupt them.

_________________
pcernie wrote:
'I'm going to snort this off your arse - for the benefit of government statistics, of course.'


Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:45 pm
Profile WWW
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 12251
Reply with quote
I am reminded that John Glenn said that the thing on his mind was the that rocket he was on was built by the cheapest bidder.

_________________
All the best,
Paul
brataccas wrote:
your posts are just combo chains of funny win

I’m on Twitter, tweeting away... My Photos Random Avatar Explanation


Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:10 am
Profile
What's a life?
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 10022
Reply with quote
Frustratingly enough, this kind of stuff goes on in the NHS. Private companies outbid GP/hospital based organisations for services but then they realise they can't run it. Either they then get more money to run it or they walk away. This appears to be the preferred choice rather than let GP or hospital groups run the service.

_________________
Image
He fights for the users.


Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:31 am
Profile
Spends far too much time on here

Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:44 pm
Posts: 4860
Reply with quote
Quote:
At least 377 Carillion staff to be made redundant.
Official receiver says axe will fall on back-office roles but adds 919 jobs have been saved.

The receiver is still sorting through Carillion’s contracts to determine the future of more than 18,000 staff, the remainder of the company’s UK workforce.

The staff who are set to keep their jobs work in Carillion’s infrastructure division, as well as on government and construction contracts.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -redundant

its now await and watch game ...

_________________
Hope this helps . . . Steve ...

Nothing known travels faster than light, except bad news ...
HP Pavilion 24" AiO. Ryzen7u. 32GB/1TB M2. Windows 11 Home ...


Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:07 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 14 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.