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Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year http://x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=24228 |
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Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:04 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year | |||||||||
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/aug/18/soft-touch-doctors-write-10m-needless-prescriptions-a-year-says-nice
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Author: | TheFrenchun [ Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year |
I think the UK is pretty good in that regard. There needs to be a concerted international approach as there's a lot of countries out there where doctors prescribe antibiotics on the first morning of a sore throat :s ( looking at you Italy!) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year |
I've posted my thoughts about this previously: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21880 viewtopic.php?f=19&t=18164 viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17651 There's so many factors at play here, you can't blame just one group.
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Author: | jonbwfc [ Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:40 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year |
The thing that struck me was the statement that Doctors feel pressurised to prescribe antibiotics by patients. Err what? Since when do patients decide what medication is appropriate for themselves? All else is fair enough, but that should simply not be happening. What we probably need is a placebo/sugar pill with a feasible sounding 'drug name' that can be prescribed to the 'worried slightly unwell'. It'd probably have as much effect as an anti-biotic anyway... |
Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:56 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year | ||||||||||||||||||
Unfortunately, some patients don't take kindly to being told something is viral. I've had patients shout at me, swear at me, try and bully me. Other docs have had patients who have made threats. There are some nasty people out there. A lot of the time, it's mothers who want something for their child's cough and they'll stomp and shout. Sad to say, it's often those who shout the loudest. Sometimes prescribing an antibiotic is the safest option. If people had to pay for their prescriptions (as well as to see the GP), things would be different. If you're over 18 and working, you'll pay unless you're exempt and quite often it's those in the exemption criteria (child under 16, on benefits, over 60) who shout the loudest. I find those who have to pay a prescription charge tend to be the most reasonable.
Whilst it would be nice, it's medically unethical in this day and age. And with the power of the internet, patients would easily find out if it were a placebo. |
Author: | big_D [ Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year |
I was pretty dumbstruck when I read that. Especially the bullying bit. When I was growing up, you went to the doctor, because he was an expert in healthcare and you took his advice. It is pretty much the same over here now. I go to the doctor's and he tells me it is viral, take paracetamol for the fever and take it easy/ stay in bed for a few days, who am I to argue. I've been told many times that antibiotics aren't right for my symptoms. I always thought it funny, why would the doctor tell me what isn't going to help? Surely he should be telling me what is going to help... Now that starts to make sense. Where has this attitude come from, that a qualified professional should be bullied, because I, as a layperson, know more than them with their years of training? |
Author: | hifidelity2 [ Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:56 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year | |||||||||
Ahh but you have forgotten - with Google every oik is suddenly an expert and that sore throat is, once they have Googled the symptoms, some strange tropic disease even though the furthest they have travelled is to Blackpool ! |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:09 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year | ||||||||||||||||||
Is it more medically ethical to give somebody a placebo that won't cure the problem but might make them feel a bit better due to the the placebo effect, or an antibiotic that won't cure the problem, might make them feel a bit better due to the placebo effect and, sadly, will also ever so slightly accelerate the time when we actually do have a bacterial immunity crisis, at which point we're all pretty screwed? I appreciate fooling/lying to the patient is always ethically murky but the fact is you're lying to them just as much giving them an antibiotic that won't cure their problem just to shut them up. Brass tacks : people demanding medication they don't need because they feel they have to be given 'proper service' from their doctors isn't going to be solved by hoping people get less stupid. Of the options available - give them a placebo, give them an antibiotic, call whatever security may be available to have the physically turfed out of the consulting room - giving them a placebo is actually the least harmful solution. of course, it isn't going to happen because that's just not how we operate as a society. But it doesn't change the fact that it's true. |
Author: | davrosG5 [ Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year |
While I don't disagree with jon's point above the problem is that when, not if, it became clear that doctors were dishing out placebos there would be serious damage to the reputation and trust in the medical profession as a whole. |
Author: | jonbwfc [ Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:34 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year | |||||||||
You are of course correct, fear of the backlash is one of the things that is keeping this from ever happening. I appreciate the argument, genuinely, but this is not a null-sum game. The unnecessary prescription of antibiotics is causing measurable harm to us as a species and will, if scientific opinion is to be believed, probably make things much, much worse for our descendants. So it's not just doctor's reputations that's at stake here.We need to stop being being prescribed drugs we have, essentially, a limited supply of before they stop working. |
Author: | cloaked_wolf [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:08 am ] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Doctors write 10m needless antibiotics prescriptions a year | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sense of entitlement. Stoked up by Govt, media and the internet. Everything is very much "me! me! me" and "I want! I want!". The lower down the social class you go, the worse this problem becomes. Hence in run down areas, surgeries have bars on windows, and receptionists have screened windows like in a bank.
Google can be helpful and a hindrance. It can make it easier to explain something the patient has read up on or explain why that headache is not a brain tumour. But you still have people pushing for scans. In the "olden" days, X-rays were the choice. A patient wouldn't be happy that a toe pain was nothing unless they had an x-ray which then turned out to be normal. Suddenly, they'd put up with the pain. These days, it's MRI or CT scans.
It's better to educate the public to self-manage a simple cough or cold, rather than getting them to rely on medication in the first place. Change their expectations.
Completely agree. The Govt has been trying to destroy the reputation and trust of medics through media spin. An example is Jeremy Hunt stating consultants should not opt out of weekend working. He says 6000 patients die a year because of consultants not working weekends. What he failed to do was check his facts which would have showed that of the 4000 consultants there are, only 1 consultant had opted out. Can you really blame 6000 patients' deaths on one consultant?
It's more than the reputation. If someone comes to me with an illness and I tell them it's viral, they're more likely to come back if they get worse or no better. If I give them medication (in this case a placebo), they are less likely to come back if it's not working or if they're getting worse because they believe the placebo will kick in. The danger is misdiagnosing something as viral when it's bacterial and the patient dies. In this case, the least worst option is giving antibiotics. Hence I'm more likely to give antibiotics to children, to the elderly or those with co-morbidities because they are more likely to be hospitalised or die if it's bacterial infection. |
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