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Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
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Author:  james016 [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8177561.stm

Well done to the arsewipe who signed that one-sided "treaty". We should tell the USA to ratify it or it gets thrown in the bin.
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
well they are be consistant in there selling down the river there own people.

Hurrah for New Labour and its mission to show how a democracy can truly be a police state!!
Author:  boothy_1993 [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
thats [LIFTED] stupid
Author:  big_D [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
He should have simply gone over when he was offered a deal. :? Now they want to make an example of him and the proposed jail time and fines are out of all proportion...

He did wrong and should have taken his medicine. But he dug his heals in and has made the situation infinitely worse for himself, now he expects the government to dig him out.

It should not have gotten this far, but we complain when people come over to the UK and commit a crime, then claim diplomatic immunity or scarper back to their own countries, only to be protected by their governments. Every body is up in arms when that happens, yet when the UK government acts "responsibly" in return, setting an example, there is an uproar... Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
big_D wrote:
He should have simply gone over when he was offered a deal. :? Now they want to make an example of him and the proposed jail time and fines are out of all proportion...

He did wrong and should have taken his medicine. But he dug his heals in and has made the situation infinitely worse for himself, now he expects the government to dig him out.

It should not have gotten this far, but we complain when people come over to the UK and commit a crime, then claim diplomatic immunity or scarper back to their own countries, only to be protected by their governments. Every body is up in arms when that happens, yet when the UK government acts "responsibly" in return, setting an example, there is an uproar... Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


In this case he commited a crime in the UK not the US. He could of easily been tried over here and that would of been the end of it. But the craven snivelling spineless lowlifes that are our lords and masters just want to roll over and appease the US. Especially as this is a heavily one sided treaty that he will extradited under.
Author:  Zippy [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
bobbdobbs wrote:
In this case he commited a crime in the UK not the US. He could of easily been tried over here and that would of been the end of it. But the craven snivelling spineless lowlifes that are our lords and masters just want to roll over and appease the US. Especially as this is a heavily one sided treaty that he will extradited under.


I don't know about that. He was physically in the UK when he commited a crime against the US, in my mind there isn't any reason why the US shouldn't want to try him there. Whether the UK agrees to extradite him to face those charges is a different matter, but it's the US bringing the charges. The UK could argue that as a British citizen he's answerable to British law, but that means they'll have to actually try him, not just let him use his Aspergers syndrome as an excuse.
Author:  big_D [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
bobbdobbs wrote:
In this case he commited a crime in the UK not the US. He could of easily been tried over here and that would of been the end of it. But the craven snivelling spineless lowlifes that are our lords and masters just want to roll over and appease the US. Especially as this is a heavily one sided treaty that he will extradited under.

Hmm, he was sitting in the UK, but the actual crime took place in America! He didn't get the servers shipped over to the UK first, he hacked them "in-situ".
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
big_D wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
In this case he commited a crime in the UK not the US. He could of easily been tried over here and that would of been the end of it. But the craven snivelling spineless lowlifes that are our lords and masters just want to roll over and appease the US. Especially as this is a heavily one sided treaty that he will extradited under.

Hmm, he was sitting in the UK, but the actual crime took place in America! He didn't get the servers shipped over to the UK first, he hacked them "in-situ".


Quote:
Alison Saunders, head of the CPS Organised Crime Division said: "We identified nine occasions where Mr McKinnon has admitted to activity which would amount to an offence under Section 2 of the Computer Misuse Act (unauthorised access with intent).

Evident cause to conduct a trial in the Uk as he commited a crime under Uk statute.
Author:  Zippy [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
bobbdobbs wrote:
Quote:
Alison Saunders, head of the CPS Organised Crime Division said: "We identified nine occasions where Mr McKinnon has admitted to activity which would amount to an offence under Section 2 of the Computer Misuse Act (unauthorised access with intent).

Evident cause to conduct a trial in the Uk as he commited a crime under Uk statute.


Yeah, there isn't any reason that a trial shouldn't be conducted in the UK, but I can understand why the US want to try him and are going for extradition, and there isn't any reason (I can see) that he shouldn't be extradited, especially since the UK clearly can't be bothered and would probably let him off with a warning, or have him committed for half of his sentence before he is suddenly "cured."

He did knowingly commit a crime, regardless of where, he should be held accountable.

Edit: This has been dragging on for ages as well, he committed the crimes in 2001/2002 I believe, if he'd just taken it the chin when the US first brought charges he'd be halfway through his sentence by now!!
Author:  ProfessorF [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
He's not pleading innocence, he just wants to be tried here in the UK.

Anyway, I see The Cosmic Joker was at work during the lunch time news on BBC1. Speaking to his mother outside the courts, there was a bus behind her bearing a poster for the film 'Aliens in the Attic'.
Author:  big_D [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
bobbdobbs wrote:
Quote:
Alison Saunders, head of the CPS Organised Crime Division said: "We identified nine occasions where Mr McKinnon has admitted to activity which would amount to an offence under Section 2 of the Computer Misuse Act (unauthorised access with intent).

Evident cause to conduct a trial in the Uk as he commited a crime under Uk statute.

Those are the crimes he can be tried for by the UK CPS, he has other offences under US law.

Look at the Turkish guy (IT Pro did a rundown of other hackers and punishment), he was arrested in Turkey and serving 30 years in Turkey. After that, the USA can elect to start extradition proceedings to prosecute him for the rest of the crimes he committed.

He can be tried in the UK for violations of UK law, but he has broken US laws as well. They can't do the process in a UK court, because they are US laws, with US jurisdiction...
Author:  bobbdobbs [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
big_D wrote:
bobbdobbs wrote:
Quote:
Alison Saunders, head of the CPS Organised Crime Division said: "We identified nine occasions where Mr McKinnon has admitted to activity which would amount to an offence under Section 2 of the Computer Misuse Act (unauthorised access with intent).

Evident cause to conduct a trial in the Uk as he commited a crime under Uk statute.

Those are the crimes he can be tried for by the UK CPS, he has other offences under US law.

Look at the Turkish guy (IT Pro did a rundown of other hackers and punishment), he was arrested in Turkey and serving 30 years in Turkey. After that, the USA can elect to start extradition proceedings to prosecute him for the rest of the crimes he committed.

He can be tried in the UK for violations of UK law, but he has broken US laws as well. They can't do the process in a UK court, because they are US laws, with US jurisdiction...


If he was convicted of the Computer misue act that would cover any crime he would of been on trial in the US, thus under the principle of you cant be tried for the same offence twice, he would of only be liable to serve a sentance in the UK.
Author:  Linux_User [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
big_D wrote:
He should have simply gone over when he was offered a deal. :? Now they want to make an example of him and the proposed jail time and fines are out of all proportion...

Apparently (it was on Newsnight) the prosecutors refused to guarantee the deal. I can understand that he was a bit apprehensive about accepting the deal if there was a chance it wouldn't exist when he got over there...

What he should have done is move to a Country without an extradition Treaty with the United States.
Author:  ethelredalready [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
Zippy wrote:
Yeah, there isn't any reason that a trial shouldn't be conducted in the UK, but I can understand why the US want to try him and are going for extradition, and there isn't any reason (I can see) that he shouldn't be extradited, especially since the UK clearly can't be bothered and would probably let him off with a warning, or have him committed for half of his sentence before he is suddenly "cured."

He did knowingly commit a crime, regardless of where, he should be held accountable.

Edit: This has been dragging on for ages as well, he committed the crimes in 2001/2002 I believe, if he'd just taken it the chin when the US first brought charges he'd be halfway through his sentence by now!!


To take your first point last, the yanks will try to lock him up for a MINIMUM of 25 years...
As to his "crimes" he freely admits accessing the US's supposedly most "secure" systems, but (unless I blinked and missed it) his actions have not, as the US is alleging, resulted in either the end of civilisation oas we know it, nor said civilisation starting to roll down a slippery slope leading to the end of .... This is simply a bunch of pathetically anally retentive Jack Bauer wannabees seeking revenge on a nerd who has made them look foolish.

On a more general note the UK's tendency to roll-over and present its arse every time a US court wants to extradite a British citizen for any crime from jay-walking upwards is both pathetic and demeaning.
Author:  Zippy [ Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal
ethelredalready wrote:
To take your first point last, the yanks will try to lock him up for a MINIMUM of 25 years...
As to his "crimes" he freely admits accessing the US's supposedly most "secure" systems, but (unless I blinked and missed it) his actions have not, as the US is alleging, resulted in either the end of civilisation oas we know it, nor said civilisation starting to roll down a slippery slope leading to the end of .... This is simply a bunch of pathetically anally retentive Jack Bauer wannabees seeking revenge on a nerd who has made them look foolish.


Unless you are actually in the employ of the US Secret Service or NASA, the fact that you don't understand why it's a crime, doesn't mean it's not a crime. The whole point of the Judicial system is for one side to prove that a crime has been commited, and for the other side to prove it hasn't. For this to happen there has to be a trial. Since the crime was only commited in the UK by proxy I can understand why the US want to extradite him for the massive breach of national security. If the pre-determined sentence for the crimes he is accused (and proved) of having commited is 25 years then yes, that's what he'll get. It doesn't matter that he's freely admitted commiting a crime, it doesn't matter how serious you, or anyone else thinks the crime or it's consequences are, it's a crime, and there are people appointed to deal with it.

ethelredalready wrote:
On a more general note the UK's tendency to roll-over and present its arse every time a US court wants to extradite a British citizen for any crime from jay-walking upwards is both pathetic and demeaning.


So go live in another country. Seriously, I don't hear anyone b!tching about all the amazing, fantastic things we've got from having our relationship with the US, I don't see anyone saying "No, No America, you can keep your life-saving expertise in the field of genetics, we don't want your newly developed materials which can help save the lives of our astronauts, our babies, our sports people." As with everything else in life, people spend too much time concentrating on the negative, and conveniently "forget" all the positive.
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