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Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph http://x404.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1862 |
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Author: | Linux_User [ Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:26 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph | |||||||||
Courtesy of Telegraph.co.uk Scary [LIFTED]. ![]() |
Author: | Paul1965 [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph |
10:30 on a Monday morning and I'm already stressed out! ![]() ![]() |
Author: | HeatherKay [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph |
Meh. Life will go on. Humans are resourceful creatures. If the global banking system crashes totally, we'll end up bartering goods and services. It'll be hard, but it'll have the advantage of weeding out the wastrels and freeloaders. So, it was nice knowing you all. I'm the one in the corner with my head in my hands... ![]() |
Author: | ethelredalready [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph |
All this kind of thing does is prove that "Economics" is a synonym for [LIFTED]! It fair makes me giggle when all these "experts", who were happily crowing about the brilliant sucess of "Capitalism" and de-regulated everything a year or two ago are now suggesting that they knew all along it would end in tears. Talk about 20/20 hindsight! The simple fact (if such a thing exits in this context) is that all the time the "music" goes round its fine. As soon as the music stops we inevitably find out there are more people than chairs. Strange that the only aparrent solution is NOT to tax the bejesus out of the Rich idiots who caused this problem (who after digesting billions of public money are now making huge "profits"\bonuses again) but to sack all those "supernumary"Teachers, Nurses and Social Workers. And of course from the point of view of our new masters we, the masses in Europe and USA are substantially surplus to requirements, so we don't need these "luxuries". It's sad that in the 40th anniversary of the Moon Landing, which promised so much, the human "project" has diminished to the point of making the whole world into some kind of neo-fuedal third world state: no healthcare, education or security for the masses; wealth beyond avaricxe for the few. The whole thing managed through violence and state power..... I thought we were supposed to be fighting against the new "caliphate", not creating a godless money-driven facsimilie of it. |
Author: | MrStevenRogers [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:04 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph | |||||||||
i couldn't agree more the workers will have to work longer and harder before they retire (if ever) to ensure the rich get richer and lead a life of total luxury at our expense and off of our backs for ever and ever Amen … this recession is going to last longer then anybody thinks because when we are able to repay the money we have borrowed we will not be able to increase services or wages as any spare money (when things improve) will be used to pay the debts that we have incurred preventing a depression … |
Author: | HeatherKay [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph |
One thing struck me in all this Apollo hoohah - it seems the population of our planet has doubled in the last four decades. I think having 6 billion humans (and growing) on the planet makes it all but impossible for society in general to be fair to everyone. It's all going to end in tears unless we really tackle this last taboo. |
Author: | paulzolo [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph |
Don’t worry - James Lovelock’s Gaia Theory tells us that by the end of the century, the planet’s population will have crashed to 1 billion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Love ... _mortality This is what Vivian Westwood got bother about on Wossy’s TV programme last week. |
Author: | ShockWaffle [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:53 pm ] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Indeed, here's a splendid bit of bull doody posing as economics...
oh, err, wait a minute. On a more serious note. That Torygraph columnist is just an unreformed Thatcherite and he is spouting bollocks. It is true there are limits to the value of Keynesian stimulus packages, especially in a developed economy like ours. In India or China, that kind of development leads to new roads and bridges etc that are genuinely useful. In the UK we run the risk of funding a bridge to nowhere, or paying one man to dig a hole and another to fill it in if we aren't careful. But actually that's what we do all the time and people expect a certain amount of it. Our agriculture and manufacturing sectors are dependent upon Keynesian stimulus even without recession. He's also backing fiscal policies that arguably created the problem we have now (it wasn't just bank regulation, it was low interest rates). He's also overstating the threat of the bond markets. Britain, France, Germany, the US, face little risk from the bond markets, probably Italy too. Spain is a different matter, they are pretty [LIFTED] tbh. And his Thatcherite terror of inflation is wrong headed too. Recent monetary policy in the developed world has been all about keeping inflation below various arbitrary targets. This was easy to achieve because China was exerting downward price pressure on the prices of imported goods (using measures that will undermine their own economic performance in the longer run). The result was a long period of low interest rates combined with reasonable GDP growth and and low inflation. Unfortunately, the idiots believed that it was their inspired new monetary policy that was bringing about a miracle, thus Gordon Brown's regular boast that he had created the longest period of uninterrupted economic growth in history. This tendency among politician to believe their own hype and suppose that the era of boom and bust was over, combined with misconceived policies to promote home ownership in some countries (UK, USA, Ireland, and Spain) is what caused the current troubles. Over the next few years, we will actually want a little inflation, not too much admittedly, but we need some. This is because inflation makes our debts cheaper. I suggest reading the economist for economic news, it is less given to hysteria than the dailies, and also far less politically biased. If you want something a bit scary, look up a Russian economist called Kondratiev. If he's right (and he always has been in the past), we are in for 20 to 30 years of [LIFTED] economies.
That reminds me of another celebrated dead economist. One mister Malthus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe |
Author: | ethelredalready [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph |
@shockwaffle: Very neatly said, though for my money Marx (Karl that is) was more political philosopher than 'economist' though a strong case Can be made for Harpo or Groucho being right up there with Friedman et al. ![]() While itemising the inadequacies of the Thatcherite\neocon analysis it's worth noting that the Chinese economic 'miracle' supporting recent western "growth" owes more than a little to good old fashioned Keynesian state Intervention mixed with a big dollop of Stalinist repression. |
Author: | ShockWaffle [ Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Fiscal ruin of the Western world beckons - Daily Telegraph |
Here's an article from the Economist that takes a more balanced view (in my view) http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... d=13829461 |
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