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good, a start on illegals ... 
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Ministers hand banks secret Whitehall list of suspected illegal immigrants whose accounts must be shut down in fresh crackdown on over stayers.

Ministers are to give banks a secret list of illegal immigrants suspected of hiding in the UK and order them to close their bank accounts.

The move comes as part of a fresh push to force those who have entered Britain illegally out of the country.


its a start ...

but then track down via the accounts the people paying, housing, homing, employing, aiding, abetting and giving sufferance to the illegals and if/when convicted impose unlimited fines and enforced removal of all funds and properties, if they themselves are not born here complete removal of them and there families along with the illegals ...

***** MOD note*****
Sources for the original quote please.

It's not "news" if there's no source cited, it just looks like a rather racist rant


edit
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/90361 ... Government
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... immigrants
https://www.ft.com/content/340843cc-9f5 ... 5a475ba4c5
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41357048
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rants.html
http://www.cityam.com/272518/new-govern ... k-accounts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01 ... -accounts/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 60771.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5322305/b ... mmigrants/
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bank ... -277wcjw5w
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/g ... e-11217741

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Last edited by MrStevenRogers on Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:12 pm
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Just wait until they mix up your account with MrStevenRogers from the Dominican Republic and close your account by accident...

I don't think this is the way to do it. Give the banks High Court orders, fine. A secret list? No.
How do we know the ministers have done due dilligence? Can we be sure they have made no mistakes? Where is the oversight?

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Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:07 am
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big_D wrote:
Just wait until they mix up your account with MrStevenRogers from the Dominican Republic and close your account by accident...

I don't think this is the way to do it. Give the banks High Court orders, fine. A secret list? No.
How do we know the ministers have done due dilligence? Can we be sure they have made no mistakes? Where is the oversight?


if it get rids of illegals no problem, i dont care how draconian it gets. i dont care how harsh the laws are even if it affects me (as me and mine are legal) as long as it hits the illegals and anyone aiding/abetting them. bring it on and then some ...

full ID cards for all UK citizens and legal residents. no ID card you have no access to anything and are entitled to nothing. easier to pick them up this way.
but we can only do this when we leave that piece of garbage called the EU. happy days are ahead ...

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Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:25 pm
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Why can you only do this, once you leave the EU?

ID cards are required in many EU lands. It has always been UK citizens that were against an ID card. I was all for it, back at the end of the 90s and the beginning of the 2000s, but the majority of the UK wanted nothing to do with ID cards, too big brother... No you have Big Brother without the ID cards.

Here, in Germany, you need an ID card (Personalausweis) or your passport + Anmeldeformular (the certificate you get when you register you place of residence with the local council). If you are trying to get work, you need both of those plus a Work Permit (Arbeitserlaubnis), if you come from outside the EU. Customs & Excise (Zoll) make regular checks of many types of business (restraunts, building sites, some shops, nursing homes etc.) to check all the employees are a) properly employed and not being paid cash-in-hand (Schwarzarbeit, black-work) and b) that they are either German/EU or have a valid work permit.

If you don't have a work permit, you will be arrested and the employer will get a big fine.

Refugees are assigned to camps here and they have an Aufenthaltserlaubnis (permission to stay), which they have to carry with them. They are allowed out of the camps, but they must stay within the area of the camp (E.g. if you are in a camp in Munich, you can't travel to visit friends in Hamburg), unless you get an extra travel permit, which has a time limit.

As to the draconian use of secret lists, where does it end? Without oversight it can be extended to suit their needs - what next? Close the accounts of all smokers? Recind driving licenses for people who drive cars over 5 years old?

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:01 am
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big_D wrote:
Why can you only do this, once you leave the EU?

ID cards are required in many EU lands. It has always been UK citizens that were against an ID card. I was all for it, back at the end of the 90s and the beginning of the 2000s, but the majority of the UK wanted nothing to do with ID cards, too big brother... No you have Big Brother without the ID cards.

Here, in Germany, you need an ID card (Personalausweis) or your passport + Anmeldeformular (the certificate you get when you register you place of residence with the local council). If you are trying to get work, you need both of those plus a Work Permit (Arbeitserlaubnis), if you come from outside the EU. Customs & Excise (Zoll) make regular checks of many types of business (restraunts, building sites, some shops, nursing homes etc.) to check all the employees are a) properly employed and not being paid cash-in-hand (Schwarzarbeit, black-work) and b) that they are either German/EU or have a valid work permit.

If you don't have a work permit, you will be arrested and the employer will get a big fine.

Refugees are assigned to camps here and they have an Aufenthaltserlaubnis (permission to stay), which they have to carry with them. They are allowed out of the camps, but they must stay within the area of the camp (E.g. if you are in a camp in Munich, you can't travel to visit friends in Hamburg), unless you get an extra travel permit, which has a time limit.

As to the draconian use of secret lists, where does it end? Without oversight it can be extended to suit their needs - what next? Close the accounts of all smokers? Recind driving licenses for people who drive cars over 5 years old?


HRA and EU charter of fundamental rights. both have only given villains a charter that they can hide behind and a get out of jail card free for the illegals.
plus the added bonus of no EU court interfering with British law ...

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:11 am
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If that were the case, other EU countries would also not be able.to do it.

Lookingg at the UK from the outside, it is often the case, that the UK government won't do something or they won't let others do something, then blame it on the EU.

For a long time, farmers were told that there were no subsidies or that they weren't entitles to them, then the government would moan about what a bad deal the EU was, whilst cashing a fat refund for unused subsidies, to offset central government debt.

If other countries a have been using ID cards and special restrictions for immigrants, it can't be a problem with the EU.

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Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:39 pm
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EU laws over rides British law, EU courts over ride British courts.
not for much longer ...

does any body require a source for that ? ...

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:26 pm
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You argument doesn't make any sense. Other countries in the EU, following the same EU directives, can implement local laws that allow them to deal with problems like this sensibly, yet the UK says they can't deal with the problem, because the EU won't let them? Something doesn't add up there.

That being the case, why hasn't the UK implemented similar laws to other EU countries? They also have to follow EU directives (not laws) in putting in place their own laws. And on occassion, they have rejected those directives as being unconstitutional and have taken them to the EU courts and won.

On the other hand, where the UK Government has been overzealous (RIPA anyone?), the EU has taken them to court for abusing the rights of UK citizens and ignoring the EU Human Rights' Charter.

You can't blame the UK's incompetence in implementing ways of dealing with illegals on the EU, when other EU countries can work effectively within the restrictions of the EU directives at combating the problem.

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:41 am
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MrStevenRogers wrote:
EU laws over rides British law, EU courts over ride British courts.
not for much longer ...

does any body require a source for that ? ...


You're talking complete and utter bollocks. Don't need to cite a source for that, you're the source of all the cr@p you're making up

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:15 am
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saspro wrote:
MrStevenRogers wrote:
EU laws over rides British law, EU courts over ride British courts.
not for much longer ...

does any body require a source for that ? ...


You're talking complete and utter bollocks. Don't need to cite a source for that, you're the source of all the cr@p you're making up


i must be hitting the mark.
i may have to change my name to Mr Steven Nigel Farage Rogers ...

Quote:
The primacy of European Union law (sometimes referred to as supremacy) is an EU law principle that when there is conflict between European law and the law of Member States, European law prevails; the norms of national law have to be set aside. This principle was developed by the European Court of Justice, and, as interpreted by that court, it means that any norms of European law always take precedence over any norms of national law, including the constitutions of member states. Although national courts generally accept the principle in practice, most of them disagree with this extreme interpretation and reserve the right, in principle, to review the constitutionality of European law under national constitutional law.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primacy_o ... _Union_law

Quote:
The ECJ is the highest court of the European Union in matters of Union law, but not national law. It is not possible to appeal the decisions of national courts to the ECJ, but rather national courts refer questions of EU law to the ECJ.[5] However, it is ultimately for the national court to apply the resulting interpretation to the facts of any given case. Although, only courts of final appeal are bound to refer a question of EU law when one is addressed. The treaties give the ECJ the power for consistent application of EU law across the EU as a whole. The court also acts as arbiter between the EU's institutions and can annul the latter's legal rights if it acts outside its powers.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Justice

and last but not least ...

Quote:
17. Declaration concerning primacy
The Conference recalls that, in accordance with well settled case law of the Court of Justice of the European Union, the Treaties and the law adopted by the Union on the basis of the Treaties have primacy over the law of Member States, under the conditions laid down by the said case law.
The Conference has also decided to attach as an Annex to this Final Act the Opinion of the Council Legal Service on the primacy of EC law as set out in 11197/07 (JUR 260):

'Opinion of the Council Legal Serviceof 22 June 2007
It results from the case-law of the Court of Justice that primacy of EU law is a cornerstone principle of Union law. According to the Court, this principle is inherent to the specific nature of the European Community. At the time of the first judgment of this established case law (Costa/ENEL,15 July 1964, Case 6/641 (1) there was no mention of primacy in the treaty. It is still the case today. The fact that the principle of primacy will not be included in the future treaty shall not in any way change the existence of the principle and the existing case-law of the Court of Justice.

(1) It follows (...) that the law stemming from the treaty, an independent source of law, could not, because of its special and original nature, be overridden by domestic legal provisions, however framed, without being deprived of its character as Community law and without the legal basis of the Community itself being called into question.'

Declaration 17, Consolidated EU Treaties.

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Last edited by MrStevenRogers on Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:42 am
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big_D wrote:
On the other hand, where the UK Government has been overzealous (RIPA anyone?), the EU has taken them to court for abusing the rights of UK citizens and ignoring the EU Human Rights' Charter.


There was the whole Phorm thing too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm#Eur ... over_Phorm

If the EU had not stepped in to protect our privacy, this could have gone on to a full product. Our government was just not having anything to do with policing this on its own.

The problem we have is that unchecked, this country seems quite happy to let governments and businesses (both local and from abroad) ride roughshod over us. We need something to balance and check such things, and the EU is pretty damn hot on this kind of thing, and is not afraid to intervene when it sees there is a problem.

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:06 am
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paulzolo wrote:
big_D wrote:
On the other hand, where the UK Government has been overzealous (RIPA anyone?), the EU has taken them to court for abusing the rights of UK citizens and ignoring the EU Human Rights' Charter.


There was the whole Phorm thing too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorm#Eur ... over_Phorm

If the EU had not stepped in to protect our privacy, this could have gone on to a full product. Our government was just not having anything to do with policing this on its own.

The problem we have is that unchecked, this country seems quite happy to let governments and businesses (both local and from abroad) ride roughshod over us. We need something to balance and check such things, and the EU is pretty damn hot on this kind of thing, and is not afraid to intervene when it sees there is a problem.


that is not my statement.
my statement was ...

Quote:
EU laws over rides British law, EU courts over ride British courts.
not for much longer ...


the reply was ...
Quote:
You're talking complete and utter bollocks. Don't need to cite a source for that, you're the source of all the cr@p you're making up


i therefore placed my case in my above post ...

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Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:09 am
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