So now is the time that I put a new system into the car. I've just got a second hand Alpine CDE-9850Ri head-unit.

As some may know (and others may have noticed) I like a bit of bassy music. DnB/dubstep basically, but with a good mix thrown in too. Obviously, 15 year old stock speakers aren't going to cut the mustard.

I'm on a tight budget, so I want to do it for as little as possible but I don't want to buy crap.

I've been having a little look around a few websites to get a feel for it, but I'd be keen to hear any comments/opinions/suggestions and most importantly recommendations, as I'm a little lost.

What do you think of THESE for up front? If I go with them, what sort of sub would match them well?

How would you go about setting up the system? I've been told that it's definitely worth amping up the fronts, but what would you recommend? A two channel amp and an active sub? A 3/4 channel amp powering the whole lot? Two amps? This is the bit I'm not too sure about really. My instinct tells me that a two channel amp and an active sub might be best on a budget?

When it comes to subs, I'm going to be looking for something as small as I can get away with. I've got a small boot anyway, so I'm not going to go and fill it with a pair of 15" subs. If I can get away with a single 8" then I'd be delighted, but I'm not sure how good it would sound compared to something a bit bigger. I've always had the impression that with subs, the bigger the better basically. Is that right??

So you're going to drive around either pissing people off, or just advertising that you've got a tasty install that should be relieved from your car?
Think carefully before throwing too much at it.
I'd suggest keeping it as stock looking as possible, I'd even debate the need for a sub, and uprate the stock speakers.
A few friends have been down the 'bigger, louder' route and all have come back to simply relying on a good head unit and if not the stock speakers then a subtle upgrade to the factory fits.

An 8" sub will not give you the bass you want from your music. A single 10 or 12 will be much better. Be economical with the size of the box and you should still have room in the boot for a dew bags of shopping. I had a 10" in a Pug 106 not that many moons ago. For big loud bass a band pass box would work best. I prefer the regular sealed enclosure variety though for listening to all kinds of music.

On a tight budget you might want to consider running the fronts off the head unit and running a pre-out to a single channel amp (or stereo amp bridged) for a single sub.

Saying that though I just looked at this: http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/produc ... /1180.html which will give you 50w RMS on the fronts and 150w for the sub. They're RMS figures so even though it doesnt sound a lot it will be pretty loud.

One last thing if you can spend that little bit more for components rather than coaxials up front you might just get that little bit more quality.

This has reminded me I've still got an Alpine V12 amp, Kenwood 2ch amp (bridged for sub) and a 10" sub in the basement. I meant to fit it in the new car and never got round to it. Will a baby on way I guess now I never will

"So you're going to drive around either pissing people off, or just advertising that you've got a tasty install that should be relieved from your car?"

Just to respond to the above. I found that the system I had (quality components on a very good V12 amp) meant that the audio quality was fantastic throughout the volume range. When listening to relaxed music the audio was a massive improvement. Its like upgrading your audio at home. A good set of speakers and amp doesnt mean you have to drive everyone nuts with overly loud tunes. Even high end manufacturers like Jaguar install amps in their cars.

NIck, check the depth of the speakers before you buy.
The front speaker pods are very shallow, fitting bigger speakers usually involves either building door pods or getting shallow custom fit speakers (if not the windows don't open).
I had some shallow kenwoods in my 306 and they were fine (think they were called custom fit). Alpine also do some as well.
Might be worth pulling the old ones out and measuring them.

Let me know if you need an amp. I've got a 3 channel one with build in x-overs I was about to ebay. It's loud and fairly small (will fit under a seat).

I used to have 2 amps, 2x 6.5" + tweeter components in the front, 2x 6x9"'s on the rear custom made shelf (standard ones sag) and 2x 12" subs in the boot (in stealth boxes).
Could go loud enough to blow the rear window out but I used to keep it fairly low and just used it for quality of sound.

I know, I'm probably tarring Nick unfairly.
Down here, if you hear a hatchback playing DnB then it's doing so obnoxiously loudly. As I mentioned, my most car audiophile mate has stuck to swapping the head unit for a Nakamichi, installing an amp and upgrading the stock speakers. Last I saw, he'd actually moved the sub* out of the boot as he'd put it in there ready to connect and never got round to it. Then he realised he didn't miss it, so it went.

As another thought, would it be worth while investing in a power cap if you are going to go ahead and do a large install?

*edited

My system can be obnoxiously loud if I want

My doors are deadened and the car's pretty solid, so if the windows are up and the roof's closed, she's reasonably quiet. Do I sometimes blaze tunes at high volumes? Of course
Most of the time though, it's just for me.

The speakers you list will probably be fine, honestly though. I wouldn't put Alpine with an Alpine HU. I think you might find the resultant sound a little bright. I would go with JBL, Infinity, or possibly anything else tbh, for a more balanced sound.

Have you thought about these:
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/genesis-profile-69-4ohm.html

Maybe they're over budget, but would work well space wise and don't need tons of power, so a four channel amp would be fine.

Yeah, they're too expensive really okenobi. I was hoping to spend less than that on the whole lot tbh, and I'm going to avoid 6x9s. I think they look pretty awful on a parcel shelf, and usually sound it too!

I'm a little surprised that you'd recommend not sticking to the same brand. I thought that being the same brand, they would be good together. When you say bright, I assume you mean tinny? Would that also apply if they were amped?

SAS, am I right in thinking that on a 3 channel amp, all the outputs are the same power? That means I'm not realistically going to want to use it to power two speakers and an amp, does it? Or is it a 4 channel, with two of them bridged??? Cheers for the heads-up about the depth too.

And prof, I agree that people pumping out some tunes at ridiculous volumes around town just makes them look like twats, and pisses people off. However, on a dual carriageway/motorway/country road I really don't see a problem.

I was looking at that amp (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/produc ... /1180.html) veato, and it seems pretty good. Anyone have any comments on the sound quality?? I think at the moment it looks odds-on that I'll buy an amp similar to that one, and some coaxials for the front. In time I'll probably add a sub.

What is a band pass box, veato??

On my amp it's 4 channels but you just bridge channels 3+4 & apply the lpf for the sub. Remembering to apply the hpf to the mid/tops. On some amps (like mine) you can actually use all 4 channels & still bridge 2 subs off it.

6x9s look awful if not properly installed with acoustic cloth, but they have a bad rep and are actually a good solution to a wide variety of problems. But if you don't like them, you're not gonna buy them!

With that amp in mind, you could get JBL/Infinity fronts and 6x9s and run them all off the amp for relatively low cost and it would dramatically improve your bass response en lieu of a sub.

When I say bright, I don't necessarily mean tinny. Just a bit in-your-face. There will likely be weight as well, it's just that the Alpine HUs have a fairly bright presentation and it's best not to accentuate it (unless you like that, but I'm guessing with your tastes, you probably don't).

Just a thought....

Oooo a read for later (found it too late at lunch) - good to see my fellow TA'er is here and hopefully doing a good job - will pop in later to suggest 18" monsters & upgraded alternators.

I already told him you're the man

See you later....

I'd be really keen to hear your thoughts.

Remember though, I'm on a budget! I can tell that what-ever you suggest is going to be very expensive!

First things first: What is your car?

Good start.
Don't fret - although I've never owned an automobile of my own; I know for a fact that the upgrade bug affects ICE* nuts as much as it does HiFi & Computer nuts - so for now think KISS**, and think expansion strategies

*In Car Entertainment
** Keep It Simple, Stupid

I've spotted you're looking at CAS, but in my days of speccing, I always found CAD (the site Oke linked to) were always more competively priced and so shopped with them (they are also indirectly aflliated & supported by the TA forum which is always a boon for forumites)

Now this is where it'll get tricksome - because we all obviously have our own tastes - but unlike Hifi & PA, auditioning car audio is a bit trickier - as store demo's don't recreate the cabin gain of your car.... so the only real way you'll ever get a proper feel for what you might be spending your money on is getting yourself to an enthusiasts meet up (if you're in anyway interested by such things) - which, fortunately, happen up and down the country considerably more often than the likes of our MUMU & MPMU.

As already raised; components will offer sounder (boom tish!) rewards over coaxials. The hifi qualities of "point-source" coaxials are lost in cars as fitment dictates footwell/door-panel installation - leaving easily absorbed & reflected treble to bounce around way out alignment before it's got anyway close to your ears; whereas components (a seperate tweeter & midrange driver) allow you to install the tweeter's at a more prefable location (ie. A-Pillars, dash corners etc)

It is the general consensus of those who've done this for some time that yes, relieving your head unit of any amplification duties is a sure thing - but when setting out, be wary to jump straight in and bypass what you have in the first place; most head units - although generally overstating their outputs - will happily run all but the most power-hungry exotica of components/coaxials. Were I you, I would leave the upgrade to an active frontend until after you've sorted out the "rear" (as in the bass) - and only then if you find the head unit's output/control of the frontend lacking.... that way then then you'll get that whole "new sound" joy once over with only a fairly simple addition of an additional amp.

And you are indeed right - there really is nothing compared to displacement when it comes to bass - yes you can spend lots of pennies on spectacularly specced 6"s, 8"s and 10"s that when in the right setup can outdo subs of a much larger size (at least those that have had less invested in their R&D and effort in the enclosure their housed) - but that's quite a science - and it is considerably easier to go the "big hammer" route - but remember, bigger cones require bigger enclosures....


Now, I'm no car audio enthusiast - despite spending countless hours drooling over as much. I have however, used (and still use) car audio equipment for other pet projects so I make the following reccomendations based solely upon what I've read/learnt/experienced in my time playing and tinkering... if all else fails, sign up and post something HERE for some near-guaranteed advice...

Anyways...
*another caveat, these are all "new" - but 2nd ICE pays massive rewards - once I'm done posting this I'll go scour the TA classifieds for some examples....

Sub(s):
JBL GT5-12
... but if you can get hold of the older GT-4 model (circa £35) you'll come up smiling
Not only are these both fairly cheap (in the world of subs that is) they are also loved and reverred by the SPL community - they are virtually bomb proof, ask very little of the box designer/builder and go both deep & loud enough to satisfy all but the insane. As a measure of how much they are loved, check this out:
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=298173

OR:
Infinity Reference 1260W
Shamelessly included simply because I always wanted an Infinity Perfect 12 (the long time forebearer of these) - yes, paper stats can be lie, but 93dB sensitivity and an fs of 23Hz just has me all aquiver...

Components:
JBL GTO6508c

Amp (for Sub as a must):
Alpine MRP M352
+
Amp (for Components at a later date):
Alpine MRP T222

You really don't want to go the "active" one-box sub+amp route. To be honest you don't even want to go the prefab box route for your sub; it can't be stressed enough that with a capable sub (like either of the above) in the correct enclosure you will reap unfathomable rewards over such "quick fix" solutions... in which case you need to obviously look at an amp to partner the sub(s) - and I would advocate a mono-channel model for this; they're designed in such a way to do away with the hassles of providing the headroom of high-frequencies (mono-channel bass amps "don't do" anything else) and as such are far more focused on delivering what they're being asked to, which is plenty of clean, flat bass. (so long as you resist the urge to fiddle with sq spoiling buttons labelled "bass boost" and such).


or


Amp (for Sub & Components all at once)
Alpine PMX F460
You could, as suggested earlier by Sas, buy a multi-channel amp like this to run your sub off of 2 channels bridged and your components upfront. But I'm not keen on that route, you'll be spending money on shared-amplification you might not necessarily need (as you have the HU output) and sacrificing cash that (in my mind) would be better spent on your sub's dedicated-to-the-task amp (as per above)

Also; I don't think I've ever seen a multi-channel amp that can bridge all the way down to the one channel - so you'll see no output or control benefits for your sub when/if you do ever get round to treating the components to an amp of their own - forcing you to sell the amp straight out (whereas the "an-amp-per-application" route means all the bits you collect don't become redundant, merely superceded at your whim).

[EDIT[
Oh and just to be boring - remember to allow a fraction of your budget (5-10%) for cabling (ie. 1-2 x 5-10m RCA cord (depending on number of amps / pre-outs on your HU, generous gauge speaker cables, (ensure an even more generous gauge for your sub(s)), and don't scrimp on spending money on decent quality live & earth leads and a decent fuse or 2)
[/EDIT]


Hope this all makes sense and is of some use - like I said, I'm off to go look at the classifieds now....

Interesting reading! Giving me ideas for a desperately needed upgrade to my own head unit and fronts, in fact.
Used to be the joke that JBL stood for 'Just Bloody Loud', in that they lacked finesse. Still the case?

Largely, yes. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Snowy's on it, as usual. 2nd hand is definitely a big key. My current setup has cost me around £2000 over the years (plus deadening and cabling per car) and has lasted 3 cars. Both my comps and my sub amp are second hand and perform perfectly whilst saving me a fortune.

Interesting way of looking at it with just amping a sub and not fronts. Of course the comps thing is a no-brainer, but as you've no stock positions in a 106, you're looking at some work. I would've thought that perhaps JBL coaxials off the HU and a sub would be great. I still think on a budget that 6x9s should be considered.

Also, even the bare minimum of deadening really should be considered as a 106 is a tin can, even by car standards. I have personal experience of them, and I know what the doors and door cards are like.