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I'm guessing one or two people here must do something in this vein.

I have been asked by a friend to help her with some recording she's been doing. Nothing complicated, just her on guitar and singing. All she's been using so far is the inbuilt mic on her Macbook. Whilst the sound quality is better than I would have expected for such a device, it's still pretty low, with lots of humming / crackly etc.

I've been looking at various different options, including hiring a small mixing desk and a good quality Mic for a weekend, but thought that it would be pertinent to avail myself of the collective wisdom here.

The primary issue is getting a good recording onto a hard drive, as I don't think it's actually going to need that much production (although I could be horribly wrong). I know a reasonable amount, but almost exclusively about engineering live, not about studio stuff.

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:16 pm
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Well you've already thought about the mixer so that's the first step.

You could get away with using the mixer to shove everything into one channel and then onto the 'pooter, but if it's possible (and she's not averse to multi-track recording) then doing guitar and vocals on separate tracks would be good for editing post-recording.

Guitar you'll want the mic about 2 inches away from the opening if it's nylon and about 4 inches if it's steel stringed. For vocals, where ever is comfortable, and if you're on a budget and can't afford the thing that reduces hiss (for the life of me I can't remember what the hell it's called!) then stretching a single layer of tights over a coat hanger and putting that between the singer and the mic will give pretty much the same effect.

As far as software goes, Cubase SX is an excellent tool and should give you everything you need. Offers pretty much everything you need. But it comes at a price. I'm sure once upon a time there was a free trial for it, might be one for the latest version. Google is your friend =)


Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:44 pm
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Don't forget Garageband...

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:51 pm
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My current thinking after having had a chat with Caroline is to go as follows:

Hire a small mixing desk and something like an AKG C451 / C414 or a Sure Beta 87. The guitar has a pretty decent pick up in it, so we will use that and just record vocals using microphones. I am leaning towards the Beta 87 as it has a very narrow angle that it will pick up within, which will help with keeping background noise to a minimum (surprisingly enough, neither of us live in a triple glazed house).

As for the recording itself, I have the issue that Caroline is very much used to playing and singing at the same time, rather than doing it separately. This gives me two options really, either 'doing it live' and simply doing the mix on the desk as I want it (given that all I've done is live engineering, this is something I'm used to), or getting her to do two takes of everything. The major issue with the latter option is that the timing needs to be perfect for it to work.

The disadvantage of the first method is that it makes editing pretty difficult, as you have both vocals and guitar together and so effects will get applied to both. However, given the recording she's done already I am not thinking that much needs doing. The only thing is that the guitar will be on its pick up and so won't have quite as much natural reverb on it. The advantage of the recording separately is that everything can be altered on its own. I suspect as this is going to be a learning experience for both of us, and that we shall experiment.

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:20 pm
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Seems that what you might be after is a small digital multi-track recorder.

Means you can do vocals and guitar at the same time and record each to different tracks on the recorder's hard drive.

Gives the advantages of multi-track with the ease of single-take.

As you're using the guitar pickups there shouldn't be a problem. Two mics however and this wouldn't work.


Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:28 pm
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Angelic wrote:
Seems that what you might be after is a small digital multi-track recorder.


Don't overlook Garageband. It may well be already on her Mac, and it's a very capable audio recording and mixing application.

You might still need a small mixer to bring various sources into the Mac itself, in which case use USB.

And that's the limit of my technical audio expertise. :D

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:40 pm
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Angelic wrote:
Means you can do vocals and guitar at the same time and record each to different tracks on the recorder's hard drive.


He only needs two tracks. Most laptops have a stereo line in? The noise levels may be questionable though...

All you really need is a quality mic and matching pre-amp. Recording guitar to the left and vocals to the right on the same file would make editing with accurate timing a synch (sic).

How used to a mic is your friend? If she's not experienced at all, then you may benefit from a compressor during the recording. With 16 bit recording, there is not much spare dynamic range to spare if she can't keep the levels consistent and you can't edit what isn't there. You may even consider a headset, especially if you're on a tight budget.

If you don't have Garageband, then there is a Mac build of Audacity.

Be sure to use good quality bins when editing. If you use speakers, bypass any eq and do it at a fairly high volume.

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:28 pm
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I've had a look at Garageband, and it seems to be lacking a rather fundamental tool in the form of EQ. Audacity does seem to have everything I want.

She is certainly familiar with using a microphone, and things like compressors etc will be applied post recording using Audacity. It would probably be better to have a proper unit for doing it but it's another thing to hire and puts the cost up more.

For doing any editing I'll be using my hi-fi (Nad C320 and some Quad 11Ls). They're definitely hi-fi rather than studio kit, but I am very familiar with them which is probably more important.

The other thing that I am looking at is that I think some of the tracks would really benefit from a bass guitar, even if it's pretty low in the mix, just to help fill out the sound, so that will make for another instrument.

Whilst I will try doing everything through the desk and leaving things unedited (hopefully to give a more natural sound), I suspect it will be pretty difficult and that we'll have to do both. Thankfully I can at least use a metronome into some headphones to help with the timing issue etc.

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:53 pm
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FWIW, this is what's been done so far by Caroline on her own:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =478763954

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:56 pm
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jonlumb wrote:
I've had a look at Garageband, and it seems to be lacking a rather fundamental tool in the form of EQ.


Cool, if you're happy with Audacity. If you're curious though, Google is your friend - it would appear Garageband does do EQ. (url=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=garageband+EQ&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=]Clicky[/url] for a search I did. :)

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Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:00 pm
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I'd still probably avoid using the inbuilt pickup on a guitar. You lose a lot of the sound (it doesn't pick up the soundboard resonating).

Personally I'd record both at the same time as a guide track, then play that back in her monitors while she does another guitar track, then do another 2 vocal tracks (double tracking ftw).

Either that or go for a stereo pair about 6" apart about 3' in front of her (as if it's your ears watching her in the audience).

If it's just guitar & vocals you may find it best to get the levels right the record live as it's easy to spoil the atmos of a recording that's so stripped back in the beginning.

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Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:35 pm
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http://www.myspace.com/eniloraco

That's really quite beautiful, and I'm pleasantly surprised at the quality. It's better than I'd expect from a laptop.

We want video! If she's shy, then just her hands playing on the guitar is good :)

She has no comments yet :?

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Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:18 pm
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Right, got pretty much everything sorted. Found a local place that can supply a Yamaha O3D desk, Shure Beta 87 and enough cables / stands etc. Total cost is £55 for a weekend's hire, which is pretty damned good in my book.

Now I need to decide on a sound card to buy.

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Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:42 pm
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jonlumb wrote:
Now I need to decide on a sound card to buy.


Really good 'un or what you can get away with?

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Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:27 pm
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pcernie wrote:
jonlumb wrote:
Now I need to decide on a sound card to buy.


Really good 'un or what you can get away with?


Well something like a Hammerfall would be lovely. However, I am probably going to be restricted to something around £100.

I don't need more than 4 in / 4 out, so that should help. Having the outs is quite important though as I have a mixing desk for that weekend, and would rather do as much of the work as possible on a desk than in Garage Band given the choice, especially as the O3D has a fair selection of compressors, effects units etc built in.

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Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:55 am
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